[wpietri]

That's not a very good analogy. The way to measure waste is by seeing if you can deliver the same customer value using fewer resources.

If I'm generous with the definition of "value", Bitcoin's main demonstrated value is as a speculative instrument. That is, something people gamble on. There are plenty of things for people to gamble on that consume less energy. Or none at all. For example, they could be gambling on the weather (as the degree-day markets do). There are other practical reasons -- much less common ones --people use Bitcoin, but those too can be done more efficiently.

Doing anything of value does require expending energy. But expending energy is no proof that anything of value is happening.

[SilasX]

It has also demonstrated value in being able to bypass the financial choke points that prevented people from (electronically) donating to Wikileaks.

[wpietri]

Given that Wikileaks now takes credit cards, it doesn't seem like a major use case: https://shop.wikileaks.org/donate

[SilasX]

For a while, credit card processors in the US were pressured by the government not to authorize charges, even if Wikileaks would accept them as payment. That make it effectively impossible for Americans to donate that way.

Even if that’s different now (which I’m not sure it is), there will always be the next important cause.

[robertAngst]

It avoids USD as currency.

The government will keep printing more USD and being opaque...

BTC has 21,000,000 solutions ever ever ever.

(and USD is a decent currency, there are countries with hyperinflation)

[bigphishy]

This is a great point thanks for making it. imho it could be worded better, but it subtaintially invalidates the arguments like "bitcoin can only be used to waste energy and buy buy drugs"

[wpietri]

There's no actual user value involved. "Avoids USD" is almost a religious statement. If one is concerned about volatility, then Bitcoin is a bad choice; it's more volatile than any major currency and most commodities. If one is concerned about the US government's future behavior, there are other major currencies. (And really, a currency is a bad place to park your wealth.) For any legitimate financial aim, there's a better solution than Bitcoin.

[bb88]

> Bitcoin's main demonstrated value is as a speculative instrument.

I think it's primary value is for money laundering and hiding money transfers from the eyes of jealous lovers / spouses / governments.

[wpietri]

Yeah, if you don't count speculation as value (and I'm happy not to), then I think light financial crime is the next biggest use case. Which is interesting in that a lot of money laundering is illegal because although it may be valuable to the launderer, the cash transfered often comes from something where systemic value is dropping. E.g. ransomware only makes the world worse, even if it makes the ransomer a profit.