[venning]

Last I read, Tesla is holding $985MM in customer deposits. [1] Now they are asking for, I'm assuming, full payment for cars starting at $48,000. However, the soonest one can be delivered is in "two to four months" and that's only for the trim that starts at $64,000. Plus there are now quite a few options costing in the thousands.

For every 10,000 customers that place an order of the, likely, several hundred thousand current deposit holders, that's somewhere around $600 MM in additional customer money that Tesla would be holding. For every 10,000 customers. But that money won't deliver a physical product for months.

Is this a play to make billions more in deposit money? Is this how they plan to take no more investment/debt this year?

Is there anyone on the list looking to buy one that can confirm if this requires full payment?

EDIT: Apparently, the ask is for an additional $2,500. [2] That would make $25MM per 10,000 customers that place an order.

Putting forth the additional $2,500 also removes the ability for you receive a refund of the original $1,000 deposit if you do not cancel within three days.

[1] https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-tesla-burns-cash/

[2] https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/28/tesla-model-3-orders-cost-25...

[Matt3o12_]

> Now they are asking for, I'm assuming, full payment for cars starting at $48,000

A quick searched reveled that the final payment is due at delivery, or shortly before deilivery [1].

When you finalize configuration, Tesla asks you for a $2500 non refundable deposit (although I have heard that they refund it in some circumstances as a matter of goodwill). This deposit is the same for all models even the Model 3, as stated here [2]:

> And finally when you’re ready to place your order, a deposit of $2,500 is required which isn’t any different than placing an online order for a Model S or Model X.

The only thing I cannot tell you is if the initial deposit counts toward the 2500 deposit or the final price. So Tesla doesn’t get billions in deposits and doing that would probably cause a lot of logistical problems and the media would scream that they are scamming customers and only do that because they are about to go bankrupt.

[1]: https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/payment [2]: https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-design-studio-config...

[venning]

According to CNBC:

> Those reservation holders must pay an additional $2,500 to turn their reservations into an order, at which point the original $1,000 deposit goes toward the overall payment for the car. Buyers can cancel their orders within three days for a full refund, the company confirmed, but after that their money is Tesla’s for good.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/28/tesla-model-3-orders-cost-25...

[frgewut]

They say that cars will be delivered in 2 to 4 months. Also ordering costs $2500.

I thought it is common to pay full amount upfront upon ordering cars, then wait a month or two for actual delivery.

[oblio]

It depends on the place/country, regarding the payment.

Regarding the delivery, there's two aspects: the first one is that delivery can take even more, even for regular cars. The second one is that I wouldn't be too confident as a Tesla customer, that I'll get the car in 2 to 4 months. 6+ months seems more realistic, based on their track record.

All-in-all, if you really like the car, it doesn't seem a blocker.

[greglindahl]

It is, with the proviso that it's rare for Americans to order a car before it's made -- we mostly buy them "off the lot". Tesla is unusual in that regard.

[venning]

As a former car salesperson, I can tell you that, in the state of Virginia, car sales contracts are not valid until the customer has physically taken possession of the vehicle. As a result, we were always very reticent to sell a car "off the truck". Customers would swear up and down that they'll definitely follow through but, most of the time, they'd just never come to pick up the vehicle and we'd be stuck trying to unwind a contract. I'm sure this is common in a lot of states.

[mikestew]

Nissan Leaf and a Scion xB, both ordered, both paid at the time of delivery, not before. No way I'd pay upfront for something I haven't even driven.

[uptown]

I’ve ordered a car that wasn’t a Tesla in the US. I paid upon delivery.

[CJefferson]

Are any of these deposits protected? I assume when Tesla folds, they will all be lost?

[greglindahl]

You can get a refund of the deposit at any time for any reason -- but no, it's not in escrow or anything. Dunno about the order payment.

[aerovistae]

Why would Tesla fold ?

[koolba]

Because they’re cash flow negative and would eventually run out of runway without either a change in financials or raising a new round.

[dgudkov]

Someone else would certainly buy them. The brand is too good to let it vanish. So it's just a matter of price -- the more indebted is Tesla the more likely someone would buy it.

[dragontamer]

Tesla as a brand will certainly continue to exist.

Alas: that's not what is being discussed. If Tesla were to enter bankruptcy, then it legally is no longer necessary to uphold its end of any bonds, payments, or other such financial issues.

Tesla might go bankrupt in the next few years, if this Model 3 thing doesn't work out. At which point, it won't return any of the money from these reservations.

[empath75]

They’re almost out of money.

[saas_co_de]

Because their current liabilities exceed their liquid assets by several billion dollars.

[woodandsteel]

I think it is extremely unlikely Tesla would go bankrupt in the next few years. If it has a cash flow problem, then it just needs a loan or investment. There are lots of venture capitalists out there who bet all the time on companies that might not succeed but could make a ton of money if they did, and Tesla certainly fits that description.

Now it is true that Musk would hate to do this, because it would mean giving up some independence, but if necessary he no doubt will.

I think the real reason we are seeing all these claims that Tesla is about to go under is that there is about $10 billion bet on stock shorts that is going to explode in the near future, and so the financiers are desperately trying to put a scare into people and drive down the stock price.

[greglindahl]

The deposit for a Model 3 is $1,000.

[venning]

But the article isn't about offering deposits. It's about ordering.

[kgwgk]

The order requires a $2,500 payment, not the full price.

[venning]

Ah, thank you. I see now there are better articles. I'll update the original comment.

[greglindahl]

Yes, I read the article. It was extremely unclear what you were asking, and it's definitely not the case that a full payment is required.

[codeulike]

EDIT: Apparently, the ask is for an additional $2,500. [2] That would make $25MM per 10,000 customers that place an order.

Right, and so the premise of your original comment no longer applies. Or am I missing something?