Hacker News new | ask | show | jobs
by rb808 2920 days ago
> and about 11 hours a day looking at screens of any kind.

That is so depressing, but thinking about it myself, 11 is probably a minimum. I have to change careers to selling ice creams at the beach or something.

6 comments

> I have to change careers to selling ice creams at the beach or something

You will learn to loathe ice cream, the beach, and even the nicest people you could see there. (Quoth Kierkegaard: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/7141047-marry-and-you-will-...)

That was a depressing quote.
On the contrary. If all actions lead to regret, then it is regret which is meaningless, not the actions themselves.

The same holds true for life. All our lives end in non-existence, but it is non-existence which is meaningless, not the life that's lived. Music is beautiful while it is being played, not only once it is over.

So this is what Bezos means when he talks about a "regret minimization framework" \s.
"Our life is what our thoughts make it"

-Marcus Aurelius

It may sound strange, but I found it very funny. I've had the same thoughts myself. As someone who sometimes worries a bit too much about making the best life choices, it's darkly funny to think that for all my planning, I'll probably find a way to regret and hate my attempts at thoughtful and wise decisionmaking in the future no matter what path I choose.
I couldn't agree more!

The article that made me realize this was Mark Manson's "The Most Important Question of Your Life" (https://markmanson.net/question). It's probably one of the best articles I've ever read.

Thank you for posting this.

I needed this article more than I knew

Kierkegaard is often great subdued, ironic fun. I share his native language, and always have the sense that he somehow loses a layer of his most subtle humor in translation.
I also found it funny. As someone who overanalyzes things constantly, I often get into thought loops that lead to regret before I’ve even taken an action.
"Don't forget to regret all the time you now feel that you wasted in your analysis!"

-My Brain

I can't help but think it would be more depressing to find the quote depressing than the quote is depressing itself
Perhaps it wasn’t the intent, but I find it inspiration not to dwell on my past decisions but to move on and make new ones.
He who collects the most regrets wins?
"It's better to regret something you have done then something you haven't".

-- Gibby Haynes (And/or lots of other people)

As someone who regrets a lot of things I've done and a handful of things I haven't, I'm very much inclined to agree.
It's a nonsense quote.

Regret is the essence of expecting your past self to know the things that only your present self knows.

As long as you don't make a habit of doing things you know in advance that you will regret, then you have nothing to regret at all: all your experiences, good-bad-and-otherwise, make you into the person you are.

True, but people who tend to regret things (not me) have a real knack for arguing conclusively why they could, should and actually have known all along that they were making a mistake.

And often it's actually true, but they erase all memory of the trade-offs they were considering at the time and disregard the possibility that acting differently might have led to an even greater regret.

So I think the Kierkegaard quote is not so nonsensical for people who - unlike yourself and myself - are prone to regrets. If you're bound to regret everything anyway then the feeling of regret driven by "why was I so stupid??"-logic may lose its intensity.

Sounds like you regret reading it.
Read the quote, and you will regret it; don’t read it, you will also regret it; read or don’t read the quote, you will regret it either way...
And Kierkegaard is one of the optimists among 19th century philosophers.
That quote reminded me of this scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXQR-cPXlmY.
I don't understand how one can regret hanging themselves. Maybe hang means something less grisly than what i'm thinking of.
Maybe they regret it for just a split second?
Despite earning marginally more than minimum wage, being a lifeguard is still the happiest I've ever been at a job.
The summer after high school, I worked for the parks department of my city. I just did general maintenance things, sold tokens for batting cages, emptied trash, "ensured the safety of the people in the park". I remember being so thrilled when I got an offer for a "real job" doing software development.

I miss working at the park. And I'm pretty sure it's not just nostalgia. I liked being outside. I liked working with the people there.

I've been doing pretty well at work lately, but I don't seem to get any happier with any type of promotion I receive. It's just more of a challenge, which I like, but it doesn't make me any happier.

I make more money now, and I just keep working hoping that I'll get to a point where I'm happy with my job, where I find something I like, but it doesn't really seem to be happening.

---

I made a throwaway for this because after I typed it up, I realized it's just me lamenting about growing up.. but I figure it's worth saying anyway.

You can get that feeling back, and usually you can do it without changing jobs. I've helped people make just this kind of change. The trick is, it's a mix of 1) abstracting the fun parts of the enjoyable job such that the individual elements can be spotted and "farmed" at the current job and 2) setting boundaries with and pushing back on any elements that compete against this process. (This is apart from work-external considerations, like having things to look forward to every day after work, etc.)

In learning to do this, people become more motivated than they would be if they just changed jobs. Patience, analysis, and cleverness are required but those skills when strengthened also tend to make people feel like they're in control of their lives again.

Believe me, you're not lamenting about growing up. Look at the details and it's probably closer to a situation that could genuinely use some rebalancing in your favor. Your career should be supporting you and not vice-versa.

Happiness is not something you find, it's something you make when you recognize what is missing in your life and you make that thing part of your life. It sounds like you're halfway there if you've identified what did make you happy.

If you enjoy your job, you're still well ahead of most people there too, even if it doesn't make you happy. Use your spare time to do the things you miss about working in the park, get outside, help people, etc. Maybe you could start a meetup.com group to give hiking tours of local trails/parks. Talk to a park ranger and find out if there's anything you can do with your group while in the park that would help the park.

Happiness is exactly the opposite. It's realizing that nothing external or material can leave you perfectly content for any length of time because that violates what it is to be human. Happiness is a choice you make and a mindset you adopt.
My first job during / out of High School was washing dishes and doing prep work at a really crap restaurant. I used to think that every subsequent job was a little better then the one before that.

My job now is essentially solving puzzles and stopping problems before they happen. And I have time to write something non-work related while I'm at work.

Sometimes though I wonder if it really is better. My current job can be frustrating. Sometimes I come up with solutions that make me feel incompetent. It took too long and the answer is inelegant.

When I was working at that restaurant all I had to do was put forth effort. It was physical and stressful to be sure but it never made me feel bad about myself.

Same sort of thing, happiest I've been "working" was helping a mate with some labouring of a weekend back when I was 17. It's amazing the satisfaction you get at the end of the day feeling 100% exhausted, but with several tonnes of concrete mixed, or a few thousand bricks moved (even seemingly arbitrarily from one spot to another).

Not something you really want to be doing for 30+ years though, but to be fair, I'm not sure the prospect of staring at this screen for 30+ is especially appealing either...

Sounds good, but:

1. Can you do it for 30+ years?

2. What do you do if you get sick/injured?

3. What will you do after 30 years of working for a bit more than minimum wage? I don't think you can save a lot for a rainy day...

I think the point is that it's not practical to work as a life guard, but the job made them happy.
My favorite job ever was making glasses at LensCrafters. So satisfying, so zen-like. I wonder if I'd still feel like that if I did it for my entire career.
Think of it this way: we spend 16 hours a day looking at things in general. Over 50% of our brain's cortex is dedicated to processing visual information. It makes sense that we're going to gravitate towards devices that provide us with an easy means of giving us visual information. We're just structured that way. If over 50% of our brain's cortex was dedicated to processing aural information, or physical touch, or smell, then the dominant devices nowadays would be related to that.

The main problem with screens (and the reason why I try not to do it as much as I used to) are 1) If you're interacting with a screen all the time, you're probably not interacting with someone in person, and everyone's ability to read body language and subtle cues probably goes way down when they do interact in person. 2) The current screens emit light that at the very least probably harm our biorhythms, but may harm us in other ways as well. Meanwhile the Kindle isn't much different than looking at a book or a sign. and 3) Screens provide a limited window into another world, and at least right now, that window has zero depth (and doesn't engage our other senses either while we're at it). We don't get to take advantage of having two eyes and seeing depth while we're on a screen. This may change once VR becomes more and more viable and realistic.

I do try to do things more analog myself now though. Writing or designing on paper while outside in good weather is much preferable to inside on a screen. It's also why I've gravitated to more offscreen hobbies, such as board games and board game design, as opposed to staying on screens and programming games and apps in my off hours. Screens can let you get those things done faster, though (i.e. it's much faster and less straining on my hands to type than to write all of my thoughts).

One slightly good thing about all of this is that at least the issue of light that is potentially harmful is fixable with technology.

We will at some point have colored high-refreshrate e-ink monitors, I'm convinced of it.

I'm looking forward to e-ink, paper-like laptops and phones that work well in the sun!

Yeah me too. I'm sick of having to work inside whenever I need to do something on the computer. I'd also appreciate some sort of AR headset with input via thoughts (or some other inobtrusive and precise, but portable, new input method). I'd love to be able to work on a computer while walking on a trail, for example.
That's why I don't own a smartphone. I'm behind a screen 8 hours a day. I don't want to keep watching one when I'm off work.
How about if there was a locked down smartphone OS with only call/messaging/camera and maps functionality. No other apps possible
This is kind of why I like the Windows Phone platform: it's generally sort of laggy, lacks apps for most things, and the apps it does have are generally not swift or feature-packed. It provides the basic functions fine, and with the Lumia 950, has a great camera, display, and is durable. It isn't versatile or swift enough to where I can get lost for hours on it like I tend to do with Android devices.

Even the lack of ad-blocking in the browser I find beneficial, because there is practically no way I can tolerate the web without ad filtering, so I use it mostly for utility, not much for leisure.

Trying to switch back to Android recently, and I find that the instant responsiveness, the virtually unlimited selection of great apps, means that its a lot more likely to turn into a time sink for me.

I think having a browser is what keeps me hooked. I removed all my social media apps out of privacy concerns, install only utility apps as needed, but that pesky browser seems to always be open...

I also spend more time on it when I haven't slept well. I'm happy to do other things when I'm rested but when I'm tired I don't want to do anything, and apparently looking at my phone meets the criteria for not doing anything.

I made a similar comment like this a couple months ago...it seems like it would be hard to draw the line on what to include and what not to include.

I'm considering getting a dumb phone for on-call and talking to my friends/family...but if I wanted all of that other functionality I could just delete the apps that are addicting off of my phone.

Just don't get a data plan.

Then you can use maps stored on the device and get a modern camera and lots of storage and so on but you aren't constantly checking apps for notifications and whatever.

This is what I do. I use HERE WeGO for offline maps, check messages when there's wifi. Saves a lot of money too! Never experienced problems so far. I think it's easier when you never had a data plan, going 'back' might be tough as you've changed your habits to rely on a data plan.
This is a good idea!
You can always just... not download the apps you don't want.
Bonus: Turn your phone's display to monochrome mode. Force it to become less visually stimulating to our monkey brain.
This is a fantastic idea and one I'm immediately adopting. Thank you!
So, a feature phone?
For now, we still have a choice. While the article points out that we have a hard time resisting the urge to use our phones when they are in room, what happens with AR/VR becomes so embedded that we can no longer distinguish between what is real and what is augmented?

Most of us are already choosing to give into screen time, what happens when we no longer have an easy choice?

> what happens with AR/VR becomes so embedded that we can no longer distinguish between what is real and what is augmented

You might enjoy Vernor Vinge’s novel Rainbows End, which offers a version of a future where augmented reality is so pervasive that people stop really caring about the difference.

I must say that my own takeaway from the novel is that that idyllic AR future is only going to work out if, as Vinge assumes, driverless cars also become a reality soon. We already have people walking into dangerous traffic situations because they are looking down at their phones, imagine the chaos if people start moving into dangerous paths because they are chasing something shown by the AR view.

I think most people would end up choosing AR that clearly marked dangerous areas. So they wouldn't chase the butterfly into the stampede or whatever.
Please elaborate.

Are you gonna have games that mess with your mind when you’re away from them?

I think the suggestion is more along the Ready Player One lines where the virtual world feels more real than the real world and most choose to spend most of their lives there.
Take long 6 hours walks every day after work. No need to do something as drastic as changing careers. I bet ya that you'll get bored with outside play soon enough, and you'll come back with more appreciation for the comforts of an engineering life.