[UperSpaceGuru]

I wish this didn't bother me so much, but ever since the Silicon Valley Episode where Big Head says: " Jesus! Why is it so expensive here? Look at this place, it's a shithole.", I can't seem to find a good answer to this question...

I certainly count myself fortunate to be able to afford to live here with my family. But I can't see the value of moving people to the area (as I was contemplating moving team members from out of state here). Even at six figure salaries they'd have to share an apartment to be able to save anything at all.

- Better weather, but LA is arguably nicer & less expensive.

- Better community of techies who somehow inspire you to do better? After being here for a year and attending meetups and community event, I know for a fact that's not true. Despite the density of people here, people are surprisingly disconnected, chance encounters are rare at best. Most of the interactions seem shallow at best and conversations often seem transactional.

- Better job prospects for devs? I guess for a software engineer it'd come down to better job prospects, but to be honest, it's not like the rest of America sucks for software jobs.

- Better social life? This may be availability bias as I am not single and live in the 'burbs with my family, but every single person I know seems pretty miserable & isolated. A couple of them actually moved out of the area because of the poor quality of human interaction/dating. It seems everyone works all the time. (Which works great for me as I'm on the employing side).

+ If you run a tech company & have enough money to move here and hire from the local talent pool, it's a decent proposition.

+ Relative to other places in the country it's pretty diverse and progressive

Some might say access to VCs and funding etc, but that seems to take some pretty serious effort and it might be a better idea to make the hike up from Gilroy or Hollister and not spend a 6 figures in rent for the privilege.

I think the area is beginning to emulate the inequalities that I saw growing up in a 3rd world country. The amount of homeless working people in the area is mind boggling. It seems like most people in the area are just too busy/too successful to do much about it (I include myself in this group unfortunately). California has been having an exodus of residents, but mainly middle class down. I don't see how this is sustainable long term.

*https://www.springfieldspringfield.co.uk/view_episode_script...

[sidlls]

> it's not like the rest of America sucks for software jobs.

Yes, it does suck. Outside of major population centers where software/technology startups have been on the rise software work is terrible. It's not poorly compensated, but it's still on par with any other typical office job: mostly dead-end, shabby benefits, terrible work/life balance, and management who are euphemistically described best as marginally competent.

I will note that the stereotypical perks of software in the Bay Area seem to be declining: wages certainly aren't rising as much as they were even a few years ago, if at all.

[smrtinsert]

Laugable claim. Here in DMV all job inquiries I get brag about 3 or more wfh. I grill or fry something up for dinner regularly. Only the SV bubble tries to get you to eat all meals with them and never leave the office because "passion" or similar hand wavy bullshit.

[Bahamut]

As someone who used to work in tech in DC who relocated to the Bay Area, pay in the DMV is really bad for a tech hub. I got a near 100% raise just by leaving for the Valley, and at all but one of the companies I've worked for here, almost everyone is out the office before 6, if not before 5 (or even earlier - I'll sometimes leave the office between 2:30 and 3:30 & nobody blinks an eye). One of my own teammates works from home anywhere from 2 days a week to the whole week from home.

There's this myth that all companies here are 12+ hour a day grinders, but while there are some startups like that, there are a lot of companies here that advertise work-life balance being an important thing.

[sidlls]

I understand why it may appear so, but not everybody in the Bay Area works at Facebook, Google or for a startup. Some of us work for companies where the compensation is decent and the work/life balance is fantastic, and where the people in charge don't try to substitute "passion" for compensation.

[jogjayr]

What is DMV? Web search wasn't much help

[sidlls]

Likely DC, Maryland, Virginia. There is a lot of defense and government contracting in hardware and software in that area. As another person indicated pay is really not that great. I'd add the diversity of opportunity is constrained as well: if you aren't interested in helping the military blow shit up, three-letter agencies probe into private lives, or a handful of NIH- or DOE-funded research projects then you're mainly competing for jobs at much smaller companies, poorly paying jobs at larger companies or pharma labs, or desperately trying to get out.

[fjsolwmv]

How is grilling and frying regularly unique to DMV and better than having the option of a free grilled/fried meal provided?

[analognoise]

All of those "perks" are traps to get you to work longer hours and/or be available for work talk longer.

If I can grill in the office in the nude like I can at home, I'll consider it as free.

[mpmpmpmp]

The "Better job prospects for devs" thing is always funny for me to see as a midwesterner. I know everybody has a different definition for "Better," but even in a flyover state, someone with marketable skills can have a new job tomorrow if they want pretty much in any city here. I guess the flare of working at a big name means a lot more to people than it should?

[fjsolwmv]

It's not "flare", it's a huge paycheck.

[PKop]

With huge cost of living to go along with it

[jogjayr]

You can save a lot more money, in absolute dollar terms. 20% of 200k is more than 40% of 80k.

People talk about "cost-of-living" like it's some non-negotiable tax that you have to pay to the world. It's true you can't get the same lifestyle at the same price as a low CoL area - no humongous 5 bedroom house with a massive backyard. But it doesn't mean your life has to necessarily suck.

[softawre]

You can get the 5 bedroom house 15 minutes away from a decent city, 15 minutes away from work, in most states, and not miss out on much from the SV "lifestyle".

I think the only thing I miss out on by not working in SV is working with true world-class talent.

[jogjayr]

Who said anything about the SV lifestyle? I was only talking about the high salaries in SV and the financial opportunities resulting from them.

What I meant was you can't have the same lifestyle in SV as you would in a low CoL area - no humongous house etc. You'd have to adapt and especially downsize on living space. But if you're OK doing that the financial rewards are large.

[knicholes]

Sometimes these huge companies have offices in some not-so-huge areas with excellent cost of living. (e.g. Lehi, UT)

[UperSpaceGuru]

Interesting that you mention Lehi. I’m going exploring this summer to see if I can open a satellite office there for customer service, sales & maybe some engineering too. At a 2 hour flight, it’s a pretty awesome place. I’ve hung out with a YC startup there and there’s good energy & drive with a reasonable cost of living.

However, I know things look good on paper and don’t always pan out that way once you’re actually there.

One of the things about SV is that I don’t fee quite so out of place and weird for wanting to work all the time.

[knicholes]

The surrounding areas have houses for much less. Lehi used to be a big farm town, and now there's a huge dichotomy between the old and the new. Traffic is getting worse (Utah standards of "worse", of course). A 20 minute commute, however, provides much more affordable housing.

[dnautics]

If cost of living scales linearly with salary the only situation where you prefer to be in cheapotown is if you're spending more than you earn.

[samcheng]

For what it's worth, I moved here (in part) because of the large talent pool, but found it just as hard to hire here in the Bay Area as elsewhere. And maybe harder... Even though the talent pool is much larger, there is also much more venture capital fueling employment.

I'd be interested in an analysis of job seekers vs. job openings from someone like Hired - is the Bay Area better for developers or employers?

[ajmurmann]

I worked for a company that has their office in SF. I got hired as their first Portland hire and built up a small office here. Turn over in SF was much higher and hiring was faster in Portland. So over time the center of gravity for engineering moved to Portland. Pretty small company though and everyone we hired in Portland were referrals, so take this with a grain of salt.

Edit: as an employee the SF job market can hardly be beat though.

[kilroy123]

I grew up in California, but not the bay area. I personally refuse to live there. Pretty much for all the reasons you mentioned.

[webkike]

SF is beautiful. LA is a Hodge podge of gaudy attempts at class. In SF, the buildings are similarly architected and colored wonderfully. Palo Alto? Now that place is gross