[docker_up]

The fact that this monstrosity of justice has continued, even under presidents such as Obama, make me so angry and upset. It's exactly what happens when you let the police do whatever they want, without someone to curtail their behavior. Unfettered power equals unfettered corruption, and the fact this keeps occurring in 2018 is astounding and upsetting.

[smsm42]

Obama never showed any desire to curtail executive powers. In fact, he was championing exactly the opposite approach - that executive has the power to produce new regulatory legislation and ignore existing legislation they don't like, as soon as they perceive Congress does not do what they want it to do. No wonder Obama did nothing for civil forfeiture reform - that would be the exact opposite of his policy of infinite executive powers. His administration was not just ignoring forfeiture abuse - it was actively encouraging it, e.g. by means of infamous "equitable sharing" program, that allows the law enforcement to directly profit from seized property: https://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2016-04-11/obamas-do...

Saying forfeiture abuse proliferated "even under Obama" is like saying even under Rod Blagojevich corruption proliferated in Illinois. Not exactly a surprise.

[docker_up]

You would think a professor in Constitutional Law would be eager to plug a whole that the police were taking advantage of, namely suing the money instead of suing the person. Yet all there was was deafening silence. So disappointing when people don't see things like this.

[nostrademons]

Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy [1] presents a problem for anyone seeking to rectify the problem of an organization having too much power. In order to fix the problem, you first need power, which means that you need to create the institutional structures needed to secure that power, which means you have just exacerbated the problem. If you then actually follow-through with your original goal, nobody will listen to you, because you have (by definition) removed your power. More pithily, "Organizations whose top priority is not the continued existence of the organization are replaced by organizations whose top priority is."

The only way to fix an organization that's outgrown its social purpose is for that organization to fail, outright, and then have its functions subsumed by other entities outside of the organization that can pick up the pieces. Sometimes the failure comes from internal dysfunction, sometimes it comes from external competition, but most of the time it's a mix of both, as internal dysfunction drives away competent insiders who then form the locus of external resistance.

[1] https://www.jerrypournelle.com/reports/jerryp/iron.html

[gamblor956]

Obama eventually did plug the hole...

It wasn't that big of an issue until after the recession (i.e., during his second term), so it simply wasn't on his radar while he dealt with more pressing issues.

Moreover, civil forfeiture is allowed under federal law under very broad terms. It took quite a bit of time after it became an issue to draft a policy that would allow it to continue but end the excesses. Obama couldn't simply stop enforcing the law because the GOP and various state/local law enforcement agencies were prepared to sue in court to keep the gravy train going, and such a lawsuit would have kept the practice fully legal until long after his second term ended.

Indeed, Congress could have ended civil forfeiture immediately but simply eliminating the law allowing for it. But GOP members of Congress blocked every such attempt.

[smsm42]

I don't remember any serious effort at ending civil forfeiture while Democrats held majority in both House and Senate. Could you provide the link?

I think both parties have very little interest in ending civil forfeiture currently, and the executive has even less as it's reducing their power. Placing it on the GOP only is just wrong - they both share the blame on this.

> Obama couldn't simply stop enforcing the law because the GOP and various state/local law enforcement agencies were prepared to sue

That didn't stop him from discretionary stopping to enforce other laws he didn't like. Surely, they could sue, but he has the resources of the whole Federal Government, and as we've seen recently, single injunction from a friendly federal judge (Obama must have had at least one?) could stop any regulation nationwide. If he really wanted it, he could organize it so that the practice would be stopped at least until it propagates through the courts up to SCOTUS (probably several years) and he surely could stop any federal participation in the practice, and issue guidelines severely deprecating the practice. And of course one shouldn't underestimate the power of the President, especially one like Obama, just plain speaking on the matter publicly. Obama did so with many matters. On the matter of civil forfeiture, he did the exact opposite. I see no other explanation for this but his complete approval of the practice.

[jmalicki]

"Obama eventually did plug the hole..." citation?

[gamblor956]

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/attorney-general-prohibits-fe...

[smsm42]

This - from 2015 - seems to pre-date my link from 2016 that says equitable sharing was reinstated. So he maybe temporarily plugged the hole but then took the plug out. Well, technically Lynch did, but we don't assume she'd do it over Obama's disagreement.

[jessaustin]

That seems like a portion of the hole, but probably not the whole hole?

[foobarbazetc]

States rights...

Only so much the Feds can do in matters of local and state level policing.

That’s why you need the SC to rule on stuff.

[harryh]

Civil forfeiture cases are argued before the judiciary branch. The power is not unfettered.

[s73v3r_]

They're usually argued against the actual item being seized, not the owner of the item. Since a pile of money can't really hire an attorney, there's no argument to the contrary, and the state wins.

[harryh]

That's not how it works.

Anyone can put in a claim on the property (most commonly the person that it was seized from) and argue in front of a court (with a lawyer) that they are the rightful owner.

[s73v3r_]

That's after the seizure happens. But during the seizure, you'll have cases like State of California vs $25,000 in cash.

[harryh]

It doesn't really matter what sort of administrative name is put on the case. An individual who files a claim on the property still gets their day in court. That trial represents a check on the power of the police which means (as I originally stated) that this power is not unfettered.