[stryk]

If I'm moving stolen money (or magic math coins or whatever) I don't give a damn about the fees - it's 100% profit either way. It costs money to have it laundered, whether that goes to a shady lawyer(s) or a Bitcoin processor who cares, it doesn't matter it's all profit for the thief.

[JumpCrisscross]

> I don't give a damn about the fees - it's 100% profit either way

If I worked in your criminal enterprise, I'd could tell your deputies "look at this chump, throwing money away. I'll hire trucks to haul cash and boost our profits by 20%. Help me 'replace' the leader and I'll split those gains with you."

[stryk]

That's not how dirty money works if you want to get away with it. You need to launder it -- put it into something legitimate and, most importantly, get something back out of it that looks legitimate enough to pass casual scrutiny -- for this service anything and anyone, legit or not, is going to take a cut (or "fee"). It's the cost of doing criminal business. And if you're in a criminal enterprise and you even talk to the other members of the ent. about how you're going to move your money you ain't gonna be in the enterprise very long. That type of dirt you do by your lonesome or you die.

[JumpCrisscross]

Needing to pay fees is different from not "giv[ing] a damn about the fees." I understand I have to pay a broker's fee when I buy and sell stock. That doesn't mean I'm indifferent to its level.

Using Bitcoin to surreptitiously move large quantities of funds is almost always riskier and more expensive than traditional money-laundering techniques.

[stryk]

And how may I ask did you come to this conclusion? Have you ever actually laundered dirty money?

[JumpCrisscross]

> Have you ever actually laundered dirty money?

No. My knowledge comes from anti-money laundering training.

Depending on how fast one needs to move, money laundering fees go from 5% to 30%. Bitcoin is cheaper than that per se. But include the costs of anonymising and cleanly cash out, and you're just adding cost and risk over a wire transfer between fronts.

[stryk]

No man, there's so much more exposure that way. And remember, this is a criminal enterprise. Those people who run your fronts could just as easily rob/kill you and take it for themselves, and given the chance they will. With bitcoins you can 1) do it yourself, no middlemen other than the bitcoin processor who doesn't give a flying right-hand fuck where the money comes from, and 2) do it far, far, far quicker than traditional methods. A thief isn't going to give a damn about fees, I'm tellin ya, in the end it's all profit for them. Get in, get it, and get out. If I hit a lick for $100k, flip it in a couple days while interacting with not another soul but lose 30k to fees, I'm still up 70k that's a good lick. and if I paid the 30k to not have to deal with ANYONE face-to-face (least of all other criminals) that's worth it in spades because I'm not spending MY 30k, I'm spending YOUR 30k.