[ada1981]

Perhaps what you mean to say is I have a profound disagreement with the common narrative spread that “capitalism lifts people out of poverty.”

If capitalism had such a mechanism, perhaps we could see it in action?

The truth is that the world bank seems to just shift definitions of “poverty” to fit their agenda and to make global poverty a more manageable problem.

[mseebach]

No, that is indeed not what I meant to say. I meant to say that you're wrong.

The fact that capitalism had lifted billions out of poverty is uncontroversial, very broadly accepted (and there is plenty of evidence). Of course you can disagree with that, but exhibiting a minimal grasp of the argument you're disagreeing with makes it a lot easier to take your concerns seriously.

[ada1981]

Also, with regard to Quora, of course it’s not “truth”.

But I really have no idea what you mean by “broadly accepted” or how to evaluate that claim as true or false, and you’ve failed to answer my question on how we should do that.

[ada1981]

What exactly am I wrong about?

That capitalism only helps others to the extent that the “help” further concentrates capital?

That very often capitalism produces horrible incentives and things like regulatory capture?

That very often labor and resources are exploited by Capital in very detrimental ways? Ie, soda companies extracting water for export while local water supplies dry up?

That the World Bank essentially shifts definitions of poverty to fit its agenda (what exactly do you mean by poverty? And why are developed counties seeing an increase of people living at or near the poverty line?)

I acknowledge that capitalism is part of our evolution as a species, but moving people from extreme poverty to a bit less extreme poverty (plus fancy definition shifting) really should not be our end game.

Also unclear when you mean “broadly accepted”?

Do you mean the majority of the world practices it?

Do you mean the majority of the world has spent time studying economics and history and politics and arrived at a conclusion that Capitialism is working to lift people out of poverty?

Do you mean people have been indoctorinated by capitalist power hierarchies and are willing to repeat pro-capitalist narratives?

It’s unclear to me what you mean by “broadly accepted”, but it seems clear that it is important to you that you (and others) hold and express opinions that are “broadly accepted” (whatever that means).

It’s unclear how to evaluate your claim on broad acceptance, but I looked at Quora to see what answer would democratically rise to the top and found at least the top 2 answers in alignment with my perspective.

https://www.quora.com/Has-capitalism-really-lifted-people-ou...

[mseebach]

Yes, you're basically wrong about those things, some more than others, but on the balance, wrong.

You're not displaying any willingness to study the basics of the 350 years of scholarship that supports the position that you so strongly disagree with. Believe it or not, I do actually understand the objections to this narrative (and while there are compelling points raised, I just don't think they're powerful enough to overturn the fundamentals), because understanding things means studying both sides in good faith. Factual knowledge does not "democratically rise to the top" of Quora. It's an interesting platform for surfacing alternative points of view and anecdotes, but we're some distance from actual knowledge.

[ada1981]

It seems we’ve reached the limit of the threading as there is no more “reply” option.

I’m open to discuss what your are saying, but you’ll need to respond to the questions I’ve asked vs. just saying “everything you are saying is wrong” without proving any evidence to the contrary, it’s probably a waste of everyone’s time.

It’s clear you disagree with me, and if you’d like to be on record disagreeing with me, you’ve accomplished that. Or perhaps you’d like to virtue signal to other capitalists, etc. all fine and I don’t particulary find fault with that.

However it will take more if you wish to convince me that I am “wrong” than mere saying so.

[mseebach]

You don't come off as someone who is even remotely interested in being convinced of anything. Celebrating your downvotes and declaring "the truth hurts" does not invite debate.

I'm away from my computer, but if I recall correctly, there's a world bank report from a few years ago (read the report, not the coverage of it). And for a more lightweight intro to the area, Hans Rosling is an excellent communicator, and he has a couple of TED talks and YouTube videos, as well as the GapMinder website. (Or, had, he sadly died recently).

[ada1981]

My point in the downvotes is that sometimes our contrarian opinions garner support and sometimes they don’t.

Folks shouldn’t be discouraged about posting things that get downvoted. On balance my posts and comments are well received, but I’d be worried if they all were - it might mean I’m afraid to express my ideas.