[lord_ring_11]

Can someone who uses these auto drive features comment? I would imagine it would be really hard to suddenly “take over” if u were not in full control from before in a few seconds. It would take that long to even fully understand what is really happening. When i drive normal car much of my driving is anticipating and avoiding bad situations rather than recovering from them.

[stetrain]

I have a Honda with the latest Honda Sensing suite.

The lane keep is something that you can turn on over 45mph and it doesn't require you to deactivate it or move the wheel strongly to override it. In practice it feels more like a gentle force keeping you centered in your lane, like driving on rails. I like this feature on highways and it reduces fatigue on long drives. On worse quality roads it can have a bit of a ping-pong motion but these are probably places you shouldn't be using such a system anyway.

I also really like the adaptive cruise which works all the way down to a stop, but I don't rely on it to stop in situations where traffic is coming to a stop quickly. I know that the car would almost definitely stop correctly and with enough space, but the problem is that it doesn't telegraph these intentions early enough for the driver to process and make the call to let the car handle it.

By the time I would realize that my car was approaching the one in front too quickly to stop itself I wouldn't have time to react either, so in these cases I usually override early.

I have never had any indication that the car wouldn't slow down or stop in time and have let it do so on plenty of occaisions, but it isn't a comforting feeling since it doesn't always leave time for the human to process and handle the situation if things were to go wrong. Really this is the same problem as being in a car driven by a human that you don't trust or that likes to brake late.

[seanmcdirmid]

I have the Acura version. Adaptive cruise control is great if there is no traffic. If there is traffic, the 4 car buffer it wants to maintain will just lead to cars always weaving in, causing lots of crazy speed changes.

[grogenaut]

I have noticed that fast drivers are starting to realize that if there is a nice new car you can just cut it off. They're very likely to have adaptive on and it will just back off instead of riding your bumper. I see people taking advantage of this. Ive also at least seen someone fuck with another driver by getting over in front of them, then going back and then getting back in front a few times. Real close too. So just a new form of trolling.

I also see lots of cars on the way into seattle every day who are leaving what would have been absurd distances in manual driving constantly. These all seem to be auto-driven. This latter definitely makes my life easier getting through traffic as there are so many 200ft+ gaps now at 20 mph on the freeway.

[lotsofpulp]

They're probably erring on the side of safety so staying far enough so that the car can come to a complete stop if the car in front slams their brakes. The way most people drive, if the car in front slams their brakes, they don't have enough distance to stop, but driving closer to the person in front of you reduces traffic so it's a decision we make to increase risk a little to save time.

The companies making the software of course want to avoid lawsuits so they're going to ignore time savings.

[grogenaut]

yeah I get why they're doing it, it just feels mis-calibrated. Everyone talks about self driving cars packing in as tight as train cars but what I'm seeing currently is them using 4x the space at least. And yes I know it's not L5 driving, but at this rate, 90% of cars in 10-15 years will be this spaced out by default. Rip commute times.

Also get off my lawn.

[seanmcdirmid]

The packing can only occur if all cars are self driving. It is unlikely to occur in the USA for awhile but we will probably see it happen in China where traffic is really bad.

[seanmcdirmid]

I wish they would shorten the gap as traffic slows. It makes adaptative useless for any kind of driving under 60.

[diggernet]

Subaru does that, though not as aggressively as I would prefer. Fortunately there is a button on the steering wheel that cycles through 3 distance settings, making it very easy to switch to a closer following mode in slow traffic and switch back at faster speeds.

[stephengillie]

Is the following distance adjustable? On my 2016 Camry Hybrid, it has 3 pre-set distances you can cycle through, as a button on the steering wheel. Normally, I use the Short distance, which is about 2 seconds behind the car ahead of me. It's about twice the distance I used before buying the car, yet barely too close for most cars to squeeze into.

Often, when I'm following a 1st car, and this 1st car changes to another lane - and there's a 2nd car ahead that the 1st car was following - I'll swap from the Short distance to the Long distance. This keeps me the same distance behind the 2nd car as I was when the 1st car was between us. Sometimes a 3rd car will swing in between me and the 2nd car - taking the place of the 1st car - and so I cycle through the distances back to Short. Like holding open a space, because a driver more aggressive than me will force their way into the gap anyway.

Other times, I'll use the Medium distance in bad weather, or on empty highways so I'm not pressuring the driver that I'm following.

[seanmcdirmid]

I think it is configurable but I haven’t bothered yet. Really, I want it to vary with traffic speed.

[stephengillie]

Mine varies with traffic speed. At 60 mph, it's about 2x-3x the distance as at 30mph. It defaults to Long, but Short is best for Seattle-area driving.

From the manual: Select a distance from the table below. Note that the distances shown correspond to a vehicle speed of 50 mph (80 km/h). Vehicle-to-vehicle distance increases/decreases in accordance with vehicle speed.

  Long   ~160 feet
  Medium ~130 feet
  Short  ~100 feet

(160 feet ought to be enough for anybody - almost every modern car and truck has a 60mph to 0mph braking distance under 160 feet on dry pavement. This car's braking distance is 125 feet, so Medium follow distance keeps you far enough behind a car that you could stop entirely in the gap.)

[rimliu]

I also have a Civic with the same feature. The thing is, while LKAS (Line keep assist system) is capable of basically driving the car, as soon as it does not sense driver's input on the wheel it will show warnings, and after some time disengage, so you are forced to use it as intended—an assist, not as autopilot.

Adaptive cruise control is a wonderful, wonderful thing. Mine will not work in go-stop-go mode (only versions with CVT transmission have this), but even without that it is very helpful.

[buro9]

I have a Volvo S90 and use both the adaptive cruise control and the steering assist ("Pilot assist" in their language).

Adaptive cruise control I mostly trust. It keeps a set distance behind a car, and that distance varies with speed (think of it as safe braking distance, faster requires more distance).

The only gotcha with adaptive cruise control is if you navigate junctions with it on, i.e. a mini-roundabout on a UK road may be a "straight on" thing and you might see that no-one is going to cross your path, but if you're fixed to a vehicle in front and it happens to turn, then your car will have slowed as it slowed, and then once it detects the obstacle is not there your car will accelerate back to the top speed set in the cruise control. In the UK this could mean going from 20mph to 60mph on a rural road which is a hell of a change.

Steering assist I barely trust. It watches the white lines and seems to favour one side of the vehicle. For clearly and consistently marked lanes of adequate width on only gently curving roads, where you are travelling between 20mph and 70mph, everything is fine.

The gotcha with steering assist is the lack of quality in road surfaces, visibility of lines, missing lane markers, narrow lanes. In these situations the car will have centred me off-centre and I risk being in the oncoming lane on rural roads, or a bend is too dramatic and the car sounds an alarm to get control.

In both cases I do not consider the car as driving itself, I accept these are convenience controls that are limited and so I remain very engaged. Adaptive cruise control is 90% trust worthy but I am wary at lower speeds and small junctions. Steering assist I use only on motorways and dual carriageways now, and never in the slow lane (where motorway ramps, merges, and splits may affect line markings).

One would be wise to not consider the vehicle as being smart.

Scariest moment I've had was actually a different system... collision avoidance.

Edit: There's also an always-on "lane keeping" system which is like the steering assist except it feels like resistance on the steering wheel if you drift over lane markings without having indicated that you intended to. This system I do like.

[sandworm101]

>>Adaptive cruise control I mostly trust. It keeps a set distance behind a car,

Sounds like you are also trusting that car. Would this system follow a car into a dangerous situation? I ran into this sometimes while riding sportbikes. Some car would be following us on a strait, a passing lane, but come the first turn it was way out of its league. I saw more than a couple sliding sideways in my mirror.

This doesn't have to involve speeding. On a mountain highway (BC) fast straits often end in very tight corners. The speed limit doesn't change. Braking, merging and cornering all have to happen simultaneously. Leading bikes in a group will sometimes even accelerate into corners to create space for those behind to maneuver. Any car setting its speed according to the bikes ahead of it is in for a nasty surprise.

[stephengillie]

> Sounds like you are also trusting that car. Would this system follow a car into a dangerous situation?

This is more true than it can seem at first. For the GP's point, adaptive cruise behind a car slowing to turn can cause unexpected braking and startle drivers.

Adaptive cruise around sharp corners exposes the current limits of self-driving car vision. These systems usually have a cone of vision in front of the car, that only sees stuff moving 25+ mph in the same direction. Once a leading car is too far around a curve, the adaptive cruise can lose track of the leading car and accelerate sharply.

Some adaptive cruise systems intentionally don't accelerate while on curves, likely for this reason.

[magduf]

Something like this happened to me not long ago, but in my car (a good-handling economy car (Mazda)): some asshole in a big Mercedes SUV was tailgating me very closely, pissed that I wasn't going fast enough for him, and he was unable to get around me on this long exit lane. Well the single lane then turned into a ramp, which I took at a pretty fast speed (for a car), as I usually do, and he almost wrecked because his vehicle couldn't handle the turn.

Later, when I was pulling into a left-turn lane and thought he was gone on his way, this asshole intentionally cut right in front of me.

[alexhutcheson]

I wouldn’t use the adaptive cruise control on a mountain highway, or any other setting with possibly sharp turns where I have to adjust speed up and down. I wouldn’t use normal cruise control in that setting either.

[sandworm101]

But my point still stands. If you are letting the machine set your speed according to the car ahead, what if that car's speed is not appropriate for you? Does the machine make a judgement as to the performance abilities of the car ahead? Humans wouldn't follow as close to a Porsche as they would a truck. You don't want to be too close to something that can stop far faster than you can.

If the adaptive cruise control is staying far enough away that it can always stop that is an entirely different problem. Leaving so much distance, so much empty road, between cars reduces the total carrying capacity of the lane, which isn't good for anyone.

[Someone1234]

I use Subaru's system regularly. You are always in complete control, and it is easy to take over. I liken their lane keep feature to "a strong wind blowing on the side of the vehicle." You just apply a little bit more force than normal and the system immediately shuts off.

I think the systems that are only lane keep/distance based cruise control aren't too bad, because you never feel like it is a fully autonomous system. It is the "uncanny valley" systems, particularly those with misleading marketing, that are getting people into trouble.

[ummonk]

Yup, I love eyesight, but wouldn't really much extra features beyond what it currently supports, as that would be too autonomous and removing me from constantly driving the car. I actually find myself being a significantly better driver with the adaptive cruise control because I can focus my attention on steering and what is happening to traffic down the road instead of being constantly focused on matching the speed of the car right in front of me. It also prevents me from getting frustrated when someone is driving like a snail in the left lane...

[joenathanone]

I have a Model 3 and use Autopilot on a daily basis. I think the key to using it properly is understanding its limitations. I always keep an eye on the road and traffic conditions and anticipate if Autopilot can handle a situation or not so I can be ready take over. I would say it can handle 70-80% of driving without issue, it's the last 20-30% I keep an eye out for when I am using it.

It's made me a better driver, I'm no longer a speed demon or care if people cut me off or get in front of me in traffic. It's like being chauffeured, I am less emotionally involved with the driving process.

[dm319]

have you had a situation where you've had to take over control at short notice? if so what happened?

[joenathanone]

Absolutely, times where the road markings are a mess can make Autopilot go crazy where it can't decide which 'lane' to stay in, I've also experienced the whole veering toward the concrete barrier. Each time I was able to anticipate that Autopilot would have trouble with what was coming up and took over when it did, you just have to apply a bit of force to the steering wheel and Autopilot makes an auditory and visual alert and disengages. I usually reengage after the danger has passed.

[diggernet]

As a happy EyeSight user, my feeling is that if it takes you any time to understand what is happening you are doing it wrong. These assistive features are great for easing the load of constant mechanical adjustments and mental focus on small details, but do not relieve you of being the driver.

I like to think about it like a ship. Having crew dedicated to rudder, throttle, and navigation doesn't mean the captain gets to take a nap. What it does is remove the distraction of focused attention required by those tasks, so he can be more aware of what is going on around the ship.

Likewise, with a car. With GPS prompting me advance notice of turns, I don't have to try to read every sign going by. With adaptive cruise control tracking the car ahead, I don't have to keep my eyes glued on that car just in case it slows down. And with lanekeeping, I don't need to concentrate so much on lane position. But I'm still the captain. I can't take a nap. I still need to be aware of those things, just not hyper-focused on them. Which frees me up to pay more attention to the cars and other potential threats around me. That greater situational awareness increases safety by improving my ability to anticipate and avoid bad situations, and means I don't need to figure out what's happening if I need to take over.

[kwhitefoot]

I have a 2015 Tesla S 70D, so Autopilot 1. I use Autosteer every time I use the car but, of course, not all the time. The way I feel is that together the car and I drive better than either of us can alone. Most of the time the car will alert me to take over long before a problem occurs. Also I will deliberately take control when I see that the car will have difficulty because, for instance, the lane markings have disappeared or there is an oncoming vehicle that is straying close to the centre line. The alerts are unmistakable and both audible and visual and override the entertainment system. Of course on a winding country road one must be more attentive than on a straight, empty, motorway, but that is the case even without Autosteer. I have set the car to maintain the largest separation between it and the car in front which corresponds to about three seconds and to give the earliest warning of collision which means that it quite frequently alerts me and starts braking.

> if u were not in full control from before in a few seconds. It would take that long to even fully understand what is really happening.

But I am paying attention so taking control is really no different and less difficult than what happens to you in a normal car when you have been driving down an empty straight road just lightly holding the steering wheel and a deer or child runs out in front of you.

[stephengillie]

> Also I will deliberately take control when I see that the car will have difficulty because, for instance, the lane markings have disappeared or there is an oncoming vehicle that is straying close to the centre line.

It's as though you're a driver assistance package for Autopilot, to take control before it can make mistakes, or when it's getting into trouble that it doesn't know about.

[smelterdemon]

I drive a Volvo S90. I only really use the "Pilot Assist" on the highway, and once you've driven it for a while you can get a sense ahead of time what situations it will fail in.

You're right though the biggest issue is still anticipating what other drivers are going to do. You need to override the system to stay out of people's blind spots or else you'll get cut off or worse. When you stay at a steady speed other drivers seem to forget your presence quicker.

[figers]

I have a model X and I would say while I am driving on the highway in the middle lane I have felt 100% comfortable with auto-pilot and never had to take over. I have driven from Boston to Hilton Head where the car did 90% of the driving and it was amazingly relaxing, literally the reason I bought the car...

There have been a couple situations where I had to take over quickly, but they were in places where I know it might not work out so I was extra attentive. One was a on a interchange between two highways and was a really really tight turn, so I am seeing how well it will do, but also keeping my hand on the stearing wheel ready to take over any second (only tried it once). Another is when passing a city on a highway (NYC, DC, etc) I find that there is always more traffic / crazy drivers / construction / tighter turns so I stay alert and hold the steering wheel ready to take over till I pass the city.

I always set the 7 car buffer in the adaptive cruise control and have no trouble stopping even if there is stopped traffic ahead on the highway.

[oldcynic]

I've had an all day test of a car with adaptive cruise (Volvo). I didn't like it - it tended to hunt like someone a bit vague was driving. It worked well if others had their speed nailed as if on cruise control too. Concluded I'd use it about as often as regular mechanical cruise (almost never).

I would prefer driving aids to have UI devoted to ensuring one has to keep attention and can't do extremes like the chap photographed alone in the passenger seat of his Tesla at 70. Oh, and marketed accordingly. Until we have full autonomy and the human can be asleep in the back.