[wilsonnb]

> It is outrageous that I have to delete half of the operating system to get something barely useable

Seriously? Windows 10 is a perfectly usable OS out of the box. I can open up the included web browser and go to whatever website I want. I can install Office, Visual Studio, a Linux subsystem, VLC, a VNC client, VirtualBox, Chrome, Firefox, and every other piece of software I need without any hassle.

Yes, there is something called "Bubble Witch 3 Saga" in my start menu that I did not install. I understand why people are upset about things like that even if I don't care.

Windows 10 has plenty of flaws that are worth pointing out, but using ridiculous hyperbole doesn't add to the conversation in a productive way.

[Aeolun]

> Windows 10 is a perfectly usable OS out of the box.

There's a large gap between 'usable' and 'good'.

They destroyed the consistency of their interface (combined desktop/mobile anyone), and added a lot of cruft that literally nobody who's used Win 7 needs.

[wilsonnb]

Yes there is. I have no problem with people saying Windows 10 isn't good, even if I personally think it's good. The "goodness" of an operating system is pretty subjective.

I do have a problem with people calling it barely usable, which is a much more objective (and incorrect) statement.

[hinkley]

Arguing with developers about the gaping maw between “tolerable” and “good” is an uphill battle. I’m starting a support group. We meet at a bar. Want in?

[sGatling1788]

> Seriously? Windows 10 is a perfectly usable OS out of the box. I can open up the included web browser and go to whatever website I want. I can install Office, Visual Studio, a Linux subsystem, VLC, a VNC client, VirtualBox, Chrome, Firefox, and every other piece of software I need without any hassle.

Ditto for dozens of Linux distro's.

> Yes, there is something called "Bubble Witch 3 Saga" in my start menu that I did not install. I understand why people are upset about things like that even if I don't care.

What other things have they installed that is difficult to find out about? How about all the spying? Some game you don't use is the tip of the iceberg.

[wilsonnb]

I'm not sure how Linux's viability as a desktop OS is relevant to Windows being usable or unusable.

I have no idea what else they've installed, just like I have no idea what MacOS or Linux install. They're all black boxes to me. I see no reason to think Windows is any worse than it's competitors.

I assume by spying, you are referring to Windows 10's telemetry. Personally, I think concerns about it are overblown and calling it spying is misleading at best. It's for diagnostic information. You can set it to only send basic diagnostic data if you so choose. I am in favor of companies collecting diagnostic information about their products to improve them.

[StreamBright]

Yeah just like Ubuntu, FreeBSD + XFCE and a bunch of other systems. I need something solid, featureful and simple as macos is, that has _great_ UX and I don't feel like fighting against the OS. Good example is when to update feature in macos vs windows is. One is pleasant, co-operative and feels right, the other is disruptive and I need to disable basic stuff not to lose some unsaved work. Just a great example how UX matters.

[wilsonnb]

I don't really care if you choose MacOS over Windows. Plenty of people do. There are good reasons to. I even agree with you on some of your points.

My contention is that you implied that Windows 10 does not even meet the low bar of "barely usable" when you said that you have to delete half of the OS to make it barely usable.

That is a lie. Windows 10 is usable out of the box without any modifications. Saying otherwise is spreading misinformation, which I don't support.

[StreamBright]

For me it definitely does not meet the bar. It might be because I work as a systems/software engineer for too long and I have extremely low tolerance to have a subpar solution running in "production". It is ok if you just open a Outlook client and mostly use Excel + Word + PowerPoint, this covers huge amount of the user base.