[desu_]

As a French, it saddens me a bit to say that but you also missed one point: culture. My background includes some grad school experience at a top French university and then at a top US university. One big difference, which became even more obvious to me after I crossed the Atlantic, is that there is (almost) no hustle culture in France.

Make fun of the stupid apps and the copycats but so many undergrads at my American alma mater were trying something, and that is already so much more than what I saw in France. I have seen some undergrads in America make serious money through their side projects and big companies are more often seen as a stepping stone towards something else. In France, the holy grail is to get a CDI (permanent employee contract) at a big company and that’s often pretty much it. They can be great employees but making money within a structure simply does not require the same resourcefulness. I don't know if the culture is contagious once you arrive in a country, or if universities attract different profiles (probably both), but I thought it was also interesting to note that the immigrants were often resembling the locals in both countries.

In my opinion, even the best version of Macron’s plan is bound to produce underwhelming results. While French taxes and bureaucracy might not help entrepreneurship, I do not think that’s why France isn’t a startup nation. Rather, it’s the fact that France isn’t a startup nation that explains why bad policies and bureaucracy have been tolerated for so long. Understand me well: my comment is the opposite of an attempt to diminish the accomplishments of French entrepreneurs, who exist and face higher administrative hurdles than their American counterparts, but is simply written to share some observations on campus culture and entrepreneurship at two top schools.

[jcelerier]

> In France, the holy grail is to get a CDI (permanent employee contract) at a big company and that’s often pretty much it.

Well, there are reasons for this. Good luck getting a loan for your next house / car / whatever if you don't have a CDI.

[heavenlyblue]

The question is, why are these based on CDI? I believe the parent is making a good point: if this is a cultural thing, the first question that comes to your mind is "why are not being as conservative as everyone else and not just going for an easy employment?"

[soalian]

You specifically refer to Undergrads as an example of hustle culture in the US, this is true as it's mostly bred into them by the all-achieving american mindset of making a name for oneself ("I'm not a millionaire...yet!"). As a post-prepa engineering school graduate myself, that can hardly be compared with the undergraduate culture we have here for top talent. We have a far stronger culture of learning theoretical sciences in depth (Prépa) and French engineers/quants are well-known worlwide for having a strong academic background in math/physics. We specialize later in school for most people, while early "tinkerers" or programmers may have chosen other paths (IUT/Epitech/...) instead. Not to say one is better than the otheer, but you'd better build a strong academic track before you're 23 (Prepa -> Top school = right signal for employers) or risk experiencing a glass ceiling regardless or your actual skills. The culture is there among students but the corporate hierarchy is still stratified at the top. Regarding the expensive top business schools, a cushy CDI remains the best way to pay off your student debt if you took out loans in the first place. Overall as a young educated graduate in France you'll be bound to expect some struggles as you try to swim against the current. As I remember the words of a dual-degree graduate from Stanford/polytechnique (Antoine D.), "«En France, j’ai appris à apprendre. Aux Etats-Unis, j’ai appris à rêver». There's room for both here but it won't be easy

[briandear]

In short: it’s indefinite pessimism vs the definite and indefinite optimism of the US. See Peter Thiel’s book Zero to One for more details of this theory.

[baud147258]

Dunno at which you were or when, but where I was (ISEP in 2010-2015), I knew some students who were making serious money in their side jobs.