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by chillidoor 2947 days ago
I wonder how big the contractor market is in France. I mean, contractors are easy to hire and fire so it could be a good compromise (at least in the short term).
5 comments

[I'm french] The contractors market is BIG in France. At least in the computers industry. And it's getting bigger and bigger.

The current trend is to externalize ALL the computer-related work, which is crazy as in the companies I've worked at, we (contractors) were in charge of the "crown jewels" of the company; without us, nothing would have worked. Nothing. So, yes, we are easier to fire (by simply stopping a contract), but our knowledge is lost, so the productivity takes a HUGE hit everytime (and don't ask me about documentation or knowledge transfer, those are considered a loss of time by the management!)

There are laws against it, to prevent the "disguised worker" phenomenon, but those laws are useless and ignored or there are work-arounds. The truth is, when you stay for more than 3 years in the same job (like I did), it's obvious that you ARE acting as a regular salaried worker.

Nowadays, it's much more difficult to find a job at a company than it was 20 years ago (or more). Consulting/contracting companies have replaced all those workers. with HUGE negative consequences on productivity, loyalty & workers' attitude.

In the -big- telecom companies I've worked at, as a contractor, you had 50% to 80% of contractors in the teams!

About 15 years ago, I worked in a BIG telecom company, who stopped ALL their contracts before the end of the year (to have numbers that looked "good"). All activity ground to a halt, because the people who "did stuff" were the contractors. Nothing was done during the 3 months period it took to rehire (mostly the same people). Salaried coworkers who were there during that period told me that the corridors were empty, and that it felt really weird to come and work in mostly empty buildings... Of course, they lost many people who had started other contracts. A smaller company would probably have gone bankrupt.

Actually we have two common cases which make it harder to work with contractor.

1. If your contractor has just you as a client for a long time, if you stop the mission he can sue you for « economical dependance »

2. The real estate market does not let you rent without a solid employee contract, making it very hard to independent contractors to find a house.

The important market is not in contractors but rather in « contractors supporters », basically buying contractors time and selling it to big corporations.

These « middlemen » take the juridical risk, which make the big corporations accepting the contractors, and help the contractors finding missions.

These middlemen also take fees on missions.

> If your contractor has just you as a client for a long time, if you stop the mission he can sue you for « economical dependance »

Here in the UK, if your contractor works for you for a long time the government could argue that they're a "disguised employee". This a type of tax dodge, so they will come down on them like a ton of bricks, and might come after you as well.

>The real estate market does not let you rent without a solid employee contract, making it very hard to independent contractors to find a house.

My previous employer found this out the hard way, as they tried to get a developer to work in Paris for a few months. But because he was employed by the London office and not the French one, they didn't want to give him a French work contract. The whole thing fell through when the developer did a lot of research (which I feel the company should have done before making the offer) and said he wasn't going to move unless they helped him with all of the paperwork to make it fully legal. The company realised how much work was involved and then said he didn't have to come, haha. They also looked at renting AirBnB rooms for the whole period but Paris is clamping down on AirBnB so it wasn't worth it.

>These « middlemen » take the juridical risk, which make the big corporations accepting the contractors, and help the contractors finding missions.

Yeah, contractor recruiters are very big in IT here, especially in London. Most IT contractors use recruiters because they do all of the legwork, and also take most of the risk. But the government is starting to put a lot of pressure on them because they are so worried about disguised employment (which to me seems like a non-issue anyway).

> making it very hard to independent contractors to find a house

This kind of thing is a subtle form of protectionism at the local level, IMO; it makes it hard for people to move about the country for work, let alone from outside.

This is before we get into the question of immigration rules with circular dependencies ..

Being a sole trader is a pain in France, and the taxes are outright robbery. The taxman feels like "hold on, this guy is actually making money... let me add a few zeros to his taxes to make sure he goes down!".
Here in the UK STs get hit with the higher tax brackets simply because they are not treated as a separate company, so all money earned is income. It's stupid to do things as a ST, unless you only take cash as then it's easier to lie about your income. Is that similar to how it is in France?
Not living in France, but Belgium (similar market to some extent): 99% of people don't want to work as a contract. They want a long term, "indefinite" employment contract.
This, exactly. France (and Belgiul as it seems) is a country where most people goal is to work for a government job, or equivalent.

The status of a job for government is tha tyou CAN'T be fired ! Whatever stupid thing you do, whatever you work or not, you can't loose the job.

It's also less payed than a job in a private company, and you almos know exactly what will be your income on the last year you'll work, but it's safe.

And for big companies, the union are mandatory, so it's almost the same. Hard to be fired.

And that's why beeing an entrepreneur in France is so hard and not understand by most people. Why take risks ?

Interesting.

Brazilian here. It seems that we have a lot in common.

However, entrepreneurship and self made man/business culture has been getting increasingly popular (mostly at São Paulo) although lawmakers have not been following the trend.

edit: formatting.

That's because everything is structured around that, especially housing and banking, there is ZERO flexibility there.

My major fear living in Paris is losing my apartment while being between jobs or even still in the trial period.

Hah, yeah I suppose that would be far more attractive :)
It's literally the only way my French company can pay to get work done, having employees is too expensive unless you have solid and constant cash flow.