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by sbov 2952 days ago
Not all business models are legal. If the companies don't want to abide by the rules of the EU, they can opt not provide services to people in the EU.
3 comments

> Not all business models are legal.

But why make this one illegal?

We can make wedding planners illegal if we don't like them and then just say "not all business models are legal.

But that doesn't explain why. Why stop people from engaging in a transaction that both sides consider to be a win?

Because "in the EU, personal information cannot be conceived as a mere economic asset: according to the case law of the European Court of Human Rights, the processing of personal data requires protection to ensure a person's enjoyment of the right to respect for private life and freedom of expression and association".

https://edps.europa.eu/sites/edp/files/publication/16-09-23_...

It's a little unclear to me how this answers the question. Can you connect the dots here?

I don't think not giving you services if you don't opt in violates your "enjoyment of the right to respect for private life..."

Are you saying that you shouldn't be allowed to trade use of your personal information for services?

If not, how does your quote tie in?

> Are you saying that you shouldn't be allowed to trade use of your personal information for services?

I think that's the crux.

That information is to be regarded as part of some inalienable rights, that those who have those rights cannot give up, even if they want to.

Not allowing people to waive their rights prevents a race to the bottom, in theory.

Are you saying that you shouldn't be allowed to trade use of your personal information for services?

That's the principle behind the GDPR, yes.

No. You are still allowed to do that, but you have to explicitly opt-in.
For the same reason we disallow indentured servitude, even if the poor guy would „really“ love to „work“ for the other guy.

For the same reason we disallow duels, even if both parties feel it would be a great way to settle a dispute.

Do you think Google requiring use of my personal info in exchange for free services should be banned for the same reason as duels?

What is that reason exactly? I don't see what the two have in common.

Ordre public (public policy).
So are your norms and morals offended enough to justify banning such a business model that requires opt-in?

Is this the basis of our disagreement?

This is not about my personal norms and morals, but about those of the society I live in.

Unlike some Internet and Silicon Valley types (who always seem to lean ultra-libertarian), I like living in a society. And society has a fabric.

This discussion is a bit like the one about minimum wage. You probably don't like it. Many people ("society") do.

Furthermore, they can adjust their business.

The GDPR does not outlaw ads. It only makes using the worst types of ads difficult or maybe even impossible.

And that‘s unequivocally good!

I prefer some targeted ads. I'd like to be able to opt in or out. Why do you think that what I want from Google should not be allowed if it's a win for me, Google, and advertisers?
You have to explicitly opt-in now.

Perhaps a middle-ground will be centralized batch opt-in services that opt you into collecting for most ad networks and sites.

The requirement not to deny service for people who don't opt-in should prevent that from being used as an end-run around the regulations, but we'll see.

'You have to explicitly opt-in now.'

I'm seeing targeted ads so where did I opt in? I'm not saying I didn't but the fact that I can't recall doing so is a bit of puzzle?

Are you a European citizen? If not, then I don't think there's much more you can do.
There's the possibility of digital citizenship for some EU member states but I have no clue if it grants any of these rights or protections, or is even legal for most countries (or specifically, America).

EDIT: typo.

Yeah, UK actually. I have now turned them off here https://adssettings.google.com/
You can! It's totally fine for Google to ask for your consent to track you! They just can't make your use of the site dependent on your consent.
Why not? As a consumer if I don't consent I simply don't use the service. Is it my right to use Google?
Would you seriously, actually ever stop to use Google? They have a gigantic monopoly on so many things.
I wouldn’t, but if anyone thinks their privacy violations are so egregious then they should refrain from using their services. No one is forcing them to use the service.
I answered in another post of this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17163342
Great! The GDPR allows that.

It simply doesn‘t allow you to decide for me that I would really love targetted ads.

Hence, „consent“.

I would reword. Not all business models are healthy for society. Or their workers. Or their consumers.

Searching for mechanisms to limit these models seems fair. I hope it is carried forth on good faith and gets good results.