[wpietri]

They mainly provide addiction. Go to a casino sometime and look around. Do those people look like they're entertained? The slot machine zombies barely look human anymore.

You're also wrong about taxes. Consider my local taqueria. They buy raw materials and create value by making ready-to-eat food just when people are hungry. They receive cash in exchange, a portion of which they pay in taxes to fund the infrastructure their business depends upon.

That is positive sum for all participants. It has to be. If taxes tipped it into the negative sum category, they'd eventually close down.

[conanbatt]

I dont think you've followed through on that model of yours.

If you buy 50 dollars of taco materials, then taco materials seller makes likes than 50 dollars ,because the state will charge a tax on him. If he didnt sell 50 dollars worth of raw materials, he would have 50 dollars of raw materials to consume, instead of less than 50 dollars.

On the other side, making the taco, you have the same issue: if you sell 100 dollars of tacos, and someone pays you 100 dollars for them, you then pay taxes.

You earn less than 100 dollars, and someone else lost 100 dollars. Repeat the proces ad-infinitum and your holdings go to 0. (assuming for simplification, any rate of positive taxation on income).

[wpietri]

This makes no sense at all, and is not how business works.

Most economic activity is positive sum. When I'm hungry and on the go, a taco is more valuable to me than raw taco materials, so I pay more for it. Value has been created. The taqueria owner takes money in, pays their expenses, and is left with a profit. Taxes are paid out of that profit, and you could just as well model it as another kind of expense, a societal infrastructure fee.

Many countries use value creation as an explicit taxation model: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value-added_tax

Those are still positive-sum interactions in the economic sense: https://www.tutor2u.net/economics/blog/qa-what-is-a-positive...

[conanbatt]

> Value has been created

But not dollars, which is what you are using to classify gambling as negative-sum.

> Many countries use value creation as an explicit taxation model: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value-added_tax

If the gobernment collected that tax but didnt spend or issued money, even VAT ends up capturing all the money supply.

This is an unnecessary long argumentation. Gambling is not negative sum because they provider entertainment that has utility.

[wpietri]

That is not in fact what I am using to classify gambling as negative-sum. It is also negative-sum in cash terms, but I'm speaking of value.

I understand you are claiming the entertainment value outweighs the harm of exploitation and addiction. I strongly disagree.

[conanbatt]

I dont think you've followed through on that model of yours.

If you buy 50 dollars of taco materials, then taco materials seller makes likes than 50 dollars ,because the state will charge a tax on him. If he didnt sell 50 dollars worth of raw materials, he would have 50 dollars of raw materials to consume, instead of less than 50 dollars.

On the other side, making the taco, you have the same issue: if you sell 100 dollars of tacos, and someone pays you 100 dollars for them, you then pay taxes.

You earn less than 100 dollars, and someone else lost 100 dollars. Repeat the proces ad-infinitum and your holdings go to 0.