[lsc]

On a societal level, we externalize most of the costs associated with auto crashes. I suspect that if we better rolled the true cost of injuries into the cost of car ownership (say, by increasing the minimum liability insurance to the cost of several statistical lives) the cheapest cars to own would be small and fairly new.

[Ntrails]

> say, by increasing the minimum liability insurance to the cost of several statistical lives

I still remember arguing with some people on the internet about how irrelevant what insurance someone bought was if you got hit by them. After all, you'd have to get into quite the accident to exceed the liability limits on car insurance.

I was so sure I was right. Then they introduced me to the idea you can drive in the US with insurance that wouldn't even cover the costs of a new medium sized sedan.

[lsc]

>I was so sure I was right. Then they introduced me to the idea you can drive in the US with insurance that wouldn't even cover the costs of a new medium sized sedan.

Yup. I mean, obviously, many people would not be able to afford reasonable levels of insurance, so instead of subsidizing public transit, or even directly subsidizing auto insurance or something, instead we leave it so that the costs of accidents are borne by victims who are unlucky enough to be hit by people who are carrying minimum driving insurance.

This means that if you are a responsible driver, you not only carry substantial liability insurance, in case you hurt someone else, but you also carry substantial 'uninsured motorist' coverage, which covers you in case someone who has minimum insurance hurts you.

Because of this, the cost of insurance varies radically; from almost nothing to rather more than the cost of a new compact car. And it scales, usually, with income, which is fine, really, but I think the way we do it (by throwing people who can't afford that rather expensive 'uninsured motorist' coverage or people who are hit outside their cars under the bus) is pretty messed up.

[perl4ever]

On the contrary, uninsured motorist insurance in the US is very inexpensive. $76 per year for half a million dollars coverage is typical (current quote from Geico).

[Ntrails]

Except that the very idea is astonishing when compared to the legal minimum insurance which sits at around 1 million dollars in the UK iirc.

I suspect that the main difference is that we are happier conceptually to say "you cannot afford insurance = you cannot drive". Driving without insurance is, of course, a crime. People still do it, and insurers will cover accidents involving the uninsured - but because it's less common the feature is basically just included by defualt in most fully comp policies

[perl4ever]

It's easy to exaggerate the differences between the UK and the US, merely because the US is a bit unfamiliar. When there is a small cost for something that exists in both countries, it is not an earth shattering difference for it to be paid from taxes in the one case and part of the insurance premium in the other.

To wit, uninsured motorist coverage is provided by the government in the UK, from what I read:

"The Motor Insurers' Bureau (MIB) compensates the victims of road accidents caused by uninsured and untraced motorists."

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_insurance

You can get $1 million in liability insurance in the US, and people do. It's not unaffordable, and while it is a pre-requisite to the uninsured coverage mentioned previously, it can be purchased alone.

[walshemj]

And have much worse outcomes in crashes (which increase the cost to society) - that's the reason why for example the new Mini's Fiat 500's are larger and are much more survivable.

Would you rather crash in a smart car or a small SUV

[lsc]

Outcomes for you? or for the person you hit? If we could all agree to use smaller cars, we'd all be better off.

Even within the 'bigger is better' arms-race limits, (you are better off in a vehicle that is heavier than your victim) you are dramatically better off in a minivan than in a similarly sized truck or other body-on-frame vehicle.