[thirduncle]

The reason they are important is that they are part of every engineers day-to-day work. We use them to collaborate and design and understand.

Hey if they work for you, that's great.

But the simple fact is that they don't fit everyone's brain. And that there are other tools available to accomplish precisely the same ends -- some of which have many advantages over whiteboards, in fact. Like these things known as "pen" and "paper", for example.

So this idea that they're part of "every engineer's" day-to-day work is, quite simply, disconnected from reality.

I do agree with you, however, that the problem lies not in the whiteboards themselves but in the way they've used. Which has truly been an epic fail.

[TooBrokeToBeg]

> So this idea that they're part of "every engineer's" day-to-day work is, quite simply, disconnected from reality.

> Like these things known as "pen" and "paper", for example.

When you need to share this pen and paper, you use a whiteboard. I don't understand this hate for whiteboards, which are a cross-industry cross-profession standard (including medical) when collaborating.

One of the more interesting things I have noticed is that happy engineers have a little free time each day. They aren't under crushing pressure at all times. To this end, it's very common for whiteboards to accumulate drawings and doodles. This is often turned into "the elaboration game" where one doodle is built upon (by a little or a lot) every now and then. This is probably because coding is problem solving, but also because it's a creative endeavor. Engineers who are happy tend to work around other happy engineers and those engineers are all creative with free time.

[thirduncle]

I don't understand this hate for whiteboards,

What's not to hate?

* unless both the board and markers are of very high quality, the boards tend to stain over time

* as do your fingers

* and the markers dry up, and the erasers get less useful as well (if they're available at all)

* you have to erase other people's crap (or wonder / ask if it's worth saving) first

* the dizziness that results having to turn back and forth between the board and your audience (that is if you don't end up simply talking into the whiteboard most of the time)

* and from stooping to pick up the pens / erasers / pen caps all the time

* and all of this, mixed with all those indelible memories of crappy interview experiences

I'll take pen and paper any day

which are a cross-industry cross-profession standard

Along with horrible interview experiences unfortunately.

[bostik]

> unless both the board and markers are of very high quality, the boards tend to stain over time

Solved by getting a good office manager.

I'm not even joking. We have very large whiteboards in every room and in almost every space where people can wheel their desks in. Cleaners are happy to clean them up and make sure they are in good condition. One team recently complained that they may be too eager... (Our whiteboards are heavy glass, bolted to the wall. It probably helps.)

Office manager(s) on the other hand always keep their ears open and make sure the office has enough pristine marker packs and erasers available. Having a supply cabinet properly stocked is a cheap investment.

One of the most enjoyable things I can hear at the office is: "Let's hijack a whiteboard".

[thirduncle]

Solved by getting a good office manager.

In theory, I guess.

But -- getting back to the original subject -- for some reason during interviews the odds that you'll get an inadequately stocked and clean whiteboard seems to be almost laughably high.

Consistent with the observation that in many places, the seem to almost make a point of the importance of positive candidate experience in so many other ways (from poorly prepared interviewers to inappropriate / irrelevant questions to stalling and ghosting, and on and on).