[addflip]

It's funny that this is coming up now. The other day I was on the phone with Geico's roadside assistance and they wanted to know my location. I told them I didn't have their app downloaded, they said it wasn't a problem and they could get it without it. Sure enough they could. I checked their disclaimers [1] and they purchase the data from my cell carrier. They didn't even have to know which one.

[1] https://www.geico.com/web-and-mobile/mobile-apps/roadside-as... (see disclaimers at the bottom)

[limsup]

Wow. The fact that they can just get this with "oral approval" (relayed by them to your carrier) is shocking to me. This is ridiculous.

[mdhardeman]

The other respondents to this message more or less have it right.

The way this stuff works is that when GEICO signed the deal to get access to this, they pinky-swore in a contract to only use the data certain ways.

Often, the representatives on both sides of such transactions even have a wink-wink nod-nod deal going which is different from what the contract materially represents.

Importantly, these contracts virtually always avoid talking about mechanisms for tracking such usage, auditing such usage, and even any remedies for violations (beyond discontinuing the service access - and then only if it's egregious).

You'd be amazed how much in the telecom world is handshake and contractual with no technological enforcement and often neither side of these agreements are incentivized to enforce the terms laid out.

The parts of these agreements that are solid is how transactions, events, etc are measured and what these cost and who pays and how. Shocking, that.

[forapurpose]

> when GEICO signed the deal to get access to this, they pinky-swore in a contract to only use the data certain ways.

Like Cambridge Analytica's deal with Facebook.

[facetube]

Exactly. Telcos recover damages, the products (read: users) who were damaged get nothing.

[jellicle]

They don't need oral approval or any approval. GEICO is only asking so that their customers won't freak out when GEICO magically knows where they are. The customer service rep probably had the data up on their screen already when they asked.

[trendia]

I wonder if they use this data to price insurance -- they would easily know when their drivers are going over the speed limit (or, if such data is not so precise, if their average speed over 10 minutes exceeded the speed limit).

[ThrustVectoring]

More likely is approximating number of miles driven and price discriminating based off that. More miles driven = more risk of an auto accident. Basically pay-per-mile car insurance, but hidden.

[pathseeker]

How do they know you are driving? Seems too error-prone to be useful.

[ThrustVectoring]

They don't need to know you are driving to do price discrimination. They could just as well take the zip codes where you live and work and assume you're driving, and make a profit giving discounts to folks with a shorter commute regardless of whether or not they actually drive it.

[lutorm]

They might know how fast you're traveling, but they don't know who's driving.

[jstanley]

Just because it's not 100% accurate doesn't mean it's 0% accurate.

There's still value in a noisy signal.

[addflip]

That was my concern.

[adrr]

You need approval from the customer if you're using a data provider that is pinging E911 location of the phone. Carriers require it. E911 location isn't that precise, its not like GPS and can be a mile or so off. It's good for detecting travel(banks) and roadside service.