[mistermann]

Israel is well beyond Nationalist if you ask me. But I'm trying to get some detail on this seemingly well known phenomenon of Nationalist actions being presented as patriotic. Maybe I'm wrong but it's starting to seem like some of these assertions are opinions based on some sort of social signalling rather than facts.

[boomboomsubban]

Orwell's definition of patriotism is fairly specific, and he mentions how hard it is to understand what anyone means when they say "patriotism" or "nationalism." Because of that, most things called patriotism barely try to fit Orwell's definition, but I can try again...

The Bush rhetoric about the necessity of the war on terror was presented in a very patriotic light by Orwell's definition. They brought up a seemingly constant risk to all American homes, and the often repeated line about the "terrorists hate our freedom" seemed to threaten and belittle the cultural values core to American patriotism. An appeal to patriotic feelings to justify nationalist actions.

If that doesn't work for you, I don't know what will. I'd guess you're using different definitions of the terms, as even my most cynical views on Israel would be nationalist.

[mistermann]

> An appeal to patriotic feelings to justify nationalist actions.

Attacking foreign countries who are not a threat is Nationalism? Is there any even remotely authoritative source that would agree with this?

Maybe I haven't been clear, but this magical redefining of words is part of the issue I'm having. If I was to say Liberalism (just for example) was synonymous with <some repugnant crime>, people would give me a "HN timeout" within 5 minutes, but it seems like you can throw whatever you want under the Nationalism banter and it's all good. Does anyone have any integrity anymore, or is it fake news all the way down?

> I'd guess you're using different definitions of the terms

It seems I am, the ones found in the dictionary for decades. But this seems to conflict with some other definition that everyone else seems to know, but won't say out loud. It's a rather interesting phenomenon to observe from someone on the outside.

[boomboomsubban]

This discussion is in a topic about Orwell's "Notes on Nationalism." The first several paragraphs are spent defining what he is calling "nationalism." I had figured you had read it, or one of the various comments summing it up, or even questioned why I repeatedly mention "Orwell's definition of patriotism."

[mistermann]

Aaaaah.....well then, that would very well explain my confusion, pardon me for the confusion.