[TheCoelacanth]

Immigrants are a very large portion of Asian Americans. Immigrants are a very small portion of black Americans.

Black immigrants in the US have roughly the same level of financial success as Asian immigrants, they are just a much smaller portion of black Americans than Asian immigrants are of Asian Americans. The real difference is between immigrants and non-immigrants, not between black and Asian people.

Also, it's untrue that immigration law applies equally to all races. There are many aspects of immigration law that are different based on national origin. People from India and China are excluded from many ways of immigrating except for work visas.

[adnzzzzZ]

I'll grant you this point given that evidently I don't know much about immigration in America, however this is somewhat removed from my initial claim and we sort of went on an unrelated discussion.

Do you agree that it's best to promote a message of "don't blame others for your failures" over a message of "your life is mostly dictated by luck"? I don't see how you could argue that the latter is better than the former.

[TheCoelacanth]

I agree that is a better mindset for individuals, but it is worse for society as a whole. That idea is frequently used as an excuse to do nothing about the factors that keep people trapped in cycles of poverty.

[adnzzzzZ]

I think this is where we disagree. In my view, individuals becoming more responsible and productive will always be better for society as a whole, because society is made up of individuals. The main idea that keeps people trapped in cycles of poverty is the idea that their problems are a result of society and not of their own actions.

And I really won't change my mind on this notion, given that my parents started up poor in Brazil and worked their way up to provide me with a reasonably good life, way better than the ones they had. And the main thing that enabled them to do that was their own mindset about life and just a lot of hard work.

The same applies to many other people I know, and the opposite also applies to many other people I know. There are people who simply don't work as hard, or don't pay enough attention to spot opportunities, or aren't financially responsible, or are alcoholics, or any other number of problems that are self-made. Those people keep themselves trapped in a cycle of poverty through their own actions, not anyone else's.