[stcredzero]

Here's what my Chinese wife says about all that. People go to a monthly meeting. You hear a "sermon" and sing some patriotic songs. Then people go on with their lives. Not everyone who goes to church necessarily really believes. Not everyone necessarily believed even in the 1800s.

That said, the social/theocratic hegemony of western Christianity wasn't all good, but it also wasn't all bad. The same probably goes for the secular ideological "religion" you see in communist countries.

[supertiger]

I grew up in China. What 'monthly meeting' (where 'you hear a "sermon" and sing some patriotic songs') is your wife talking about? That sounds bizarre

[stcredzero]

She's from Fujian. It was some kind of communist party community meeting.

[seanmcdirmid]

Careful with generalizing. Southerners, and very especially Fujianese, are less patriotic than Chinese in other parts of China, especially the north.

[sho]

> Careful with generalizing

Well, indeed. In my experience it varies very widely and pretty much follows the pattern you see everywhere else - intelligent, curious people with good job options tend to be less concerned with patriotism; the less fortunate find solace in it.

The most loudly and irrationally patriotic chinese person I know is from guangzhou. Still wants to move away though of course, what's a little cognitive dissonance between friends?

[stcredzero]

intelligent, curious people with good job options tend to be less concerned with patriotism; the less fortunate find solace in it.

Then, there are also people with memories of what happened in the 1st part of the 20th century.

[virtuabhi]

Careful with generalizing. Esp. with southerners in one bin, and northerners in the other bin.

[seanmcdirmid]

Sure. However, if South China and North China were actually different countries, you would notice a distinct differences in the trends between both.

And if Fujian somehow became a part of Taiwan, you might not notice much difference in CPC support between the province and the island.

[stcredzero]

Fujian is quite isolated from the rest of China. Until the modern era, the easiest way to get there was by sea.

And if Fujian somehow became a part of Taiwan

Parts of Fujian are claimed by Taiwan.

[stcredzero]

Yeah. "The south" of China is quite a big and diverse place. My wife's dad is definitely patriotic!

[sho]

That sounds like a meeting for party members, often people (or the families of people) angling for local government jobs. Of course there'll be some True Believers but the subtext is it's basically a networking event.

So yes, definitely like Church ;)

[wollw]

I find something ironic about this, but of course it's unfortunately true. Until last year my "Church" experience was mostly on and off spending time at a Buddhist monastery which was more about taking part in an isolated community and retreating from the world. Wanting to find something similar I started going to the local Anglican Church and being the studious kind of person I am decided to read the Book of Common Prayer, which includes the Articles of Religion[1] and in particular Articles XIII and XIV: Of Works before Justification & Of Works of Supererogation respectively. My understanding of it is that doing more work than needed is basically a Sin. Funny that until the mid-1800s these Articles were required for University students in Britain (and before Sir Isaac Newton students were I believe required to Ordain into the Church before Graduation). Part of me wishes they would make a come back.

[1] http://anglicansonline.org/basics/thirty-nine_articles.html

  XIV. Of Works of Supererogation.
  Voluntary Works besides, over and above, God's Commandments, which they call Works of Supererogation,
  cannot be taught without arrogancy and impiety: for by them men do declare,
  that they do not only render unto God as much as they are bound to do,
  but that they do more for his sake, than of bounden duty is required:
  whereas Christ saith plainly When ye have done all that are commanded to you,
  say, We are unprofitable servants.

[sho]

Oh it's definitely true. To the extent that I, an atheist with a long history of moving or being moved to random cities in which I know basically no-one, have seriously considered going to church there - just to get some social interaction and maybe even friends in a self-selecting group of vaguely judeo-christian tradition, active, gregarious people who might even be interested in bettering themselves, philosophy and making the world a better place. Damn, I'm talking myself into it again.

And that's an interesting quote. Perhaps that rule would be better reinstated.

[stcredzero]

My wife's dad is supposed to be quite patriotic. I think he's connected. (She's the youngest of 6 sisters. Note the policy implications.)