[chrisfinazzo]

It makes me extremely nervous to see that a third party can even create this capability. If I had a say, I would just tell these guys this level of access to low level code just isn't possible for third parties.

As odd as it might be, I trust Apple more because they don't want my data and aren't enabling methods for other people to acquire it.

On aome level, this back and forth on encryption is an endless cat and mouse charade, but the fundamental assumption behind cryptographic security is absolute.

"You can't outlaw math"

[MichaelGG]

What are you talking about? You want to make it so that a company like Apple can just draw arbitrary bounds and say "no messing around beyond this point" and have that be internationally, legally, enforced?

We got that with the DMCA and DRM modules, phone unlocking, and console rooting.

[chrisfinazzo]

Companies can write nigh-any clause into their EULA or T&C and people generally have little recourse. There still seems to be enough wiggle room legally because they control the platform. Some places (think EU) fight this, but I don't think it's in any way settled at this point.

They've done this in the past in subtle ways - cautioning developers about using private API, which they reserve the right to change at any time, thus breaking applications. For a practical example, Google "Apple kext signing certificate". It's not simply a matter of paying $99 and off you go, the barrier to entry is higher.

There have also been no-so-subtle warnings - see Charlie Miller's blacklisting - that even a proof of concept for a bug is not allowed because it could get out in the open and cause widespread damage.

> We got that with the DMCA and DRM modules, phone unlocking, and console rooting.

Record labels had little choice and needed to ditch these restrictions in order to have a viable business. TV studios, cellular providers, and console makers fight to this day to preserve these limits as a means of competitive differentiation.

I'm not saying I agree with it, but that is still largely the reality we have to deal with.