[willtim]

A metal body is heavy, prone to dents and attenuates radio. Why are you so keen on having one? The X1 Carbon is lighter, tougher and more serviceable than a MacBook Pro, in part because of a better choice of materials.

As for trackpads, Apple keep making them larger and larger, so a ThinkPad trackpad is no smaller than a MacBook from a few years ago. The keyboard is surely the primary concern.

[reacharavindh]

This. I don't buy MacBook Pro because it has Aluminium body, but because of the quality of the components inside, and how they integrate well with the OS.

My dream computer would be

- ThinkPad like casing. Light weight, yet durable. Not some cheap flimsy plastics.

- XPS like thin bezel display, with Apple like screen with colour calibration. While at it, please give me a 16:10 or some other tall displays where I can have more vertical space. 16:9 is only good for media and it is a secondary use-case on my laptop.

- Components with wider/open source drivers like intel wireless card instead of the Broadcom stuff. Some bluetooth module that has proper working Linux drivers.

- Trackpad - Mac like smooth trackpad. It's been decades and nothing comes even close to what Apple could do.

- Decent 12 hour real world battery life. I don't care if it makes the laptop slightly thicker or heavier - it is worth it.

- Keyboard with a good bit of travel - Like a ThinkPad.

- No Dongle life. Want USB-A, USB-C, HDMI, MiniDP, Full size SD card slot.

So far, only MacBook pro (with VMs running Linux) comes closest with several compromises.

[mattnewton]

The trackpad is also terrible compared to modern MacBooks aside from the size. It flexes, feels worse and does not reliably track gestures. The whole thing feels stuck a decade ago.

[willtim]

Modern MacBooks have absolutely terrible keyboards. So unless you use it like an iPad, you'd be better off with a ThinkPad.

[mattnewton]

I want to agree with you, I want a Linux daily driver with the quality I am used to from the Mac. But I guess we’re just going to have to agree to disagree on the new mac keyboard being a dealbreaker.

[grover_hartmann]

> The whole thing feels stuck a decade ago.

Says the macOS user... did you even get a newer version of bash yet? I heard even Debian stable has a newer bash version than macOS.

[AdamJacobMuller]

`brew install bash`

Software is trivial to upgrade and that's a very silly comparison to make.

[pjmlp]

Bash is hardly relevant for actual Apple developers.

There are no missing features that would prevent developing Swift and Objective-C applications.

[grover_hartmann]

Sure, because Swift and Objective-C applications is all that matters. /s

This comment alone proves that Apple developers are a bunch of clueless idiots.

[pjmlp]

No, we just buy Apple hardware for doing Apple related development, not as a replacement for Linux to do Linux development.

If you want to do that buy hardware from Linux vendors like Dell and System76.

[grover_hartmann]

You shouldn't buy from Apple, it's bad for your freedom.

https://www.gnu.org/proprietary/malware-apple.html

[rifung]

> A metal body is heavy, prone to dents and attenuates radio. Why are you so keen on having one?

I like how it feels and looks. Is that so wrong?

I have used an X1 Carbon for the last year but when I can I will probably go back to the MBP for the trackpad. I guess different people just have different preferences?

Let's be happy there's enough choices to hopefully satisfy everyone.

[willtim]

Yes choice is good. But my concern is that consumers start demanding metal bodies, zero-travel keys and touch-bars everywhere, because Apple, and choice will be reduced. For example, I can no longer buy a mobile phone that doesn't have a glued-in battery.

[salvar]

Are you concerned that consumers start demanding what they want, because it's not what you want?

[majidazimi]

at least for me, the answer is yes. I'm unsatisfied with almost all the options in laptop market based on my requirements. I just have to choose one, that makes me less unhappy.

Asus and Lenovo have great ultra books running Win10. Ultimate Office 365 support + good battery life. But it lacks a terminal + integrated UNIX utilities.

I prefer to use Linux on my laptop, but at the moment, it is lacking office 365 support. On some brands there is a serious battery issue.

Next option is macOS which has sane shell. But I don't understand, why is there such a huge race toward making thinner laptops? Previous generation MBP, was already thin enough. Consumers demanded thinner laptops. And now I have to bare with thinner MBP but less reliable battery power, fewer ports and a very noisy keyboard (which is disturbing everyone in library).

[boomlinde]

Should he not be?

[salvar]

I'm not going to prescribe any feeling to them. I don't think they 'should' do anything. Just found it curious to be concerned about other people having different opinions.

[boomlinde]

I don't think the concern is other people having different opinions in itself. The concern is that by having preferences that are not represented by consumers in general, it is less likely that you'll find your preferences satisfied by a product on the market. If the mainstream is heading towards a set of standards that are uncomfortable to you, I think it's a valid cause for concern.

[xg15]

I can't remember consumers demanding glued-in batteries. I think decisions like this are taken for all kinds of reasons (CEO preference, ease of design and assembly, lock-in, etc) and then presented to consumers as packages that they can accept or decline. But it's too simple to say that this is solely driven by consumer choice.

[Matt3o12_]

Consumers demanded slimmer designs over glued in batteries, soldered RAM chips, etc. So the market responded by gluing in batteries and soldering ram. In a way, the consumers did demand that.

[willtim]

I recall many consumer reviews of older Samsung phones criticising the plastic backs and asking for glass or metal.

[Koshkin]

> A metal body is heavy

You are thinking of cast iron, probably.

[thomastjeffery]

Aluminum is relatively heavy. Certainly heavier than plastic.

[nkristoffersen]

And weight is relative to strength and dimensions in this conversation, right? Plastic starts to get pretty large to match strength of aluminum.

[willtim]

Modern plastic composites with carbon fiber / glass fibers can perform as well or better than metals with regard to strength-to-weight. Plastics also have many other properties that make it preferable for a laptop case. Apple have chosen aluminium to give the impression of build quality. The competition are too often judged by their plastic cases instead of other attributes, such as the lack of glued-in batteries and unreplaceable components.

[PhasmaFelis]

> Apple have chosen aluminium to give the impression of build quality.

My MBP is going on 6 years old and I have not been gentle with it. In fact I have dropped it on concrete multiple times. It is dented and scraped, the hinge is crooked. It still works perfectly. My previous, plastic laptop (also a Mac) had to have its shell replaced twice (under warranty) in less time than that.

You may feel that aluminum is not worth the trade-offs or the cost, and that's fine, but I want to be clear, the MBP's build quality is not just a shiny facade.

[ericpauley]

Couldn't agree more. Dropped my last Macbook 7 feet onto concrete and (aside from a dent in the metal) it didn't even flinch.

[xg15]

> ThinkPad trackpad is no smaller than a MacBook from a few years ago.

Why would a comparison with products from years ago be valid here?