[aristocles]

UBI will lead to societal degeneration. Prices of essential services and goods would skyrocket; people would lose direction and the small amount of meaning they had.

I call UBI gay-space-communism because it suggests that all human beings are capable of handling themselves outside of employment and daily routine. They are not. The market creates this drive in people, and if you remove it, people will degenerate fast.

Opioids, UBI, and free-love for everyone. Yikes.

[dalore]

If goods and services skyrocketed, then those on UBI would start offering goods and services (aka working). I don't think it would degenerate at all.

Why would you lose direction and meaning? That's such a cultural thing to say, to think your job is your direction and meaning.

[egypturnash]

> Prices of essential services and goods would skyrocket

Base the UBI on multiple economic indicators such as the prices of essential services and goods, add more money to the money supply as needed.

> Opioids, UBI, and free-love for everyone. Yikes.

So a lot of people live a simple life on the basic income and hang out getting stoned and screwing. Oh no!

What's your hobby? What would you be doing if you didn't have to work for a living? Would you spend all your time getting stoned and doing the social maneuvering necessary to get laid on a regular basis? Or would you do something else with your time? Work on that programming project that's been on the back burner while you paid the bills, draw comics, join a comedy troupe, brew mead, figure out a way to automate something that drives you crazy, pick up the guitar you put down in favor of a sensible day job and start making music again... or whatever.

Personally, when I had a few years free from needing to work for someone else, I mostly spent them drawing a weird sci-fi comic using the skills I'd developed while training for the animation industry.

(The usual phrase, by the way, is "fully automated gay luxury space communism".)

[dragonwriter]

> UBI will lead to societal degeneration

No, it won't.

> Prices of essential services and goods would skyrocket

If you do a constant-value UBI and set the value too high, yes, that would happen in a positive feedback loop, but that's why UBI should be tied to a revenue stream with a value set by splitting the revenue stream with a reserve cushion to build a fund to allow preserving benefits in short-term revenue decline.

> people would lose direction

I don't see a credible argument for that replacing status quo means-tested social support with UBI would cause this, and indeed much of the motivation for UBI is to remove adverse incentives in present benefit programs that manifestly do produce this effect.

> I call UBI gay-space-communism

Which is dumb, because it has nothing to do with homosexuality or outer space or, as it retains private property, Communism.

> suggests that all human beings are capable of handling themselves outside of employment and daily routine.

No, it doesn't, not that that would justify your ludicrous label even if that was true.

[mamon]

Any value of UBI higher than 0 creates positive feedback loop:

1. government announces UBI

2. retailers, in anticipation of higher demand raise prices.

3. UBI beneficiaries see that they cannot buy as many goods as they want/need so they start demanding more money.

4. government see that they have more tax revenue due to higher retail sales (and the price raise from step 2) so it easily agrees to increase UBI amount.

5. go to step 2.

[fulafel]

Do you think other financial aid formsfunded with tax money have this effect too? Or do you think UBI is qualitatively different because all taxpayers get it?

I think you can be cured of the latter if you consider the fact that it's exactly equivalent to a negative income tax system.

[twoquestions]

What is it about freedom that is so terrifying for you?

[Latteland]

Because freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose.

There are tons of people who think like the poster above, that we need to control people by not letting them have enough earnings or whatever to be free and making choices for themselves. That belief is what is really scary to me.

[Eric_WVGG]

It’s the same sort of logic that claims religion — specifically, the threat of hell— is necessary to prevent civilization from falling into savagery... ignoring the fact that most religions don’t have a concept of hell, and many predominately secular societies do just fine.