[bvinc]

> Because nobody has a reaction to MSG. It's ill effects are entirely fictional.

It has not been proven, and will not be proven, that every single person in the world has no reaction to MSG. All I'm advocating is a little bit of doubt. The human body is complex and not every person is the same and not every biological process is completely understood. We can make statements as a whole, like that most people that think they're sensitive to MSG aren't. But we shouldn't excitedly immediately dismiss a person claiming that something is happening to them.

[tptacek]

You might just as well raise concerns about adverse effects from dill, or alliums, or fava beans. In fact, all three of those are more likely to be associated with ill effects, because they're more allergenic.

The reason MSG gets such harsh pushback is that the idea of "Chinese Restaurant Syndrome" or "MSG sensitivity" has been rebutted pretty comprehensively both from an empirical perspective --- decades of studies have never established a link, which according to the narrative of MSG sensitivity should be very easy to do! --- and from a theoretical perspective. In fact, the theoretical basis for the safety of MSG is pretty plain just from the molecule, which makes you wonder how people could be spinning stories about the dangers of chemical MSG at all.

[bvinc]

I'm not trying to raise concerns. And actually, I agree with everything that you said. There is obviously a lot of misinformation and most of people's reactions and stories are factually incorrect and part of a fad. We can say that for sure because we've studied it.

What I'm trying to say is that you shouldn't take that knowledge and then proceed to tell an individual, who you haven't studied, that they are wrong about what is happening to their bodies. People have weird and rare reactions to things all the time. You should have a healthy amount of doubt and realize that maybe you don't have complete knowledge of their bodies. Why is everyone here so certain? Who proved that no person on the planet has any reaction to MSG?

[tedunangst]

If I had symptoms from an imaginary syndrome, I'd think I'd be thankful to someone telling me that so I could continue looking for the true cause.

[drewmol]

I agree with your sentimate. It's also important to remember that we continually learn new things about how previously considered inert components actually have effect when ingestested in combination with active ingredients. I love glutamate. When isolating them from other components and changing chemical structure, then dumping that in high volumes into other food (where the Chinese Food Syndrome part comes from), it does not seem unreasonable to me that it may cause irritation to some peoples digestive system. So I guess it's important to express that a whole is not only a sum of its parts, and both biology and chemistry are fluid evolving disciplines.

[tptacek]

If it "may" cause digestive irritation, how come it never does when scientists do blinded studies of it?

[drewmol]

The articles mentioned studies, but I can't give informed speculation, have not looked at any of the studies. Will assume the participants who reported irritation are a small enough a population to fall within the range of participants reporting irritation from placebo. So I'll opine that most of the people who report negative reaction probably have not sufficiently isolated MSG as the culprit, even if they are certain enough to convict.

Side note: Latacora intreagues me, I think it's a good aproach to satisfy some security pain points. If things go well in the next few months, I may reach out to evaluate fit;-)

[tptacek]

By all means, reach out any time you have questions. :)

[gilrain]

I'm constantly worried about that teapot orbiting Mars that nobody can disprove. Imagine how much it must be worth! What color might it be? Endless fascination.

[bvinc]

You think the probability that someone on the planet has a sensitivity to a certain food/molecule is about the same as there being a teapot orbiting Mars? Everything a person consumes has a vast variety of effects in different people. We're discovering new reactions all the time.

I'll tell you why I care. I'm coming from the perspective of someone that DOES have a rare and strange immune system reaction to a common food. I've seen doctor after doctor for years and no one can tell me what it is. I've tested it over and over and over and my doctors all agree with my assessment. But for some reason, I have to deal with a lot of people that tell me I'm wrong because read something on the internet about it being a fad. Why is everyone so damn certain they have complete knowledge of someone's digestive system and immune system?

[gilrain]

My partner has IBS, so I'm also frustrated with unidentified food reactions/digestive issues. But I can't help her by ignoring the best tool for discerning reality we have, which remains scientific research. The results on MSG, glutamates, is very, very clear.

"You think the probability that someone on the planet has a sensitivity to a certain food/molecule is about the same as there being a teapot orbiting Mars?"

No, I KNOW people have food sensitivities. But not to MSG or its metabolites. I have as much evidence for the teapot as the MSG sensitivity, so I couldn't really guess which is more likely. I'd be happy to change my mind on either if presented with plausible research!

[nucleardog]

I have as much evidence for the teapot as the MSG sensitivity, so I couldn't really guess which is more likely. I'd be happy to change my mind on either if presented with plausible research!

I mean, you also have a whole ton of negative results regarding the plausibility of MSG sensitivity.

Do you have any results showing that someone has looked into the possibility of a teapot floating around Mars and not found one?

There's no clear mechanism for either to be true, but so far I think my money's on teapot.

[moogleii]

Sure, and you could say the same about tomatoes. But, generally speaking, people don't have reactions to tomatoes. The oddity/absurdity is spending extraneous resources/time arguing whether being allergic to MSG is actually a thing, just as it would be to devote resources into whether being allergic to tomatoes is a thing (hell, it's borderline as absurd as studying if being allergic to salt is a thing, at which point you would just be dead).

If you're allergic to tomatoes or salt, then it's a personal thing, not a general property of tomatoes or salt.

[ajross]

> It has not been proven, and will not be proven, that every single person in the world has no reaction to MSG.

And you have an example of a food anywhere that meets that standard? Literally nothing meets this ideal of "safety", so I don't understand why you're OK with peanuts or shrimp when those are clearly shown to be death sentences for some people.