[gambiting]

Absolutely, but to use books as the example here - should we ever send people to jail for owning a book? Like, just sitting in their home library - should you ever go to jail for one? If yes, why yes? If no, what if the book is Mein Kampf? What if it contains graphic descriptions of child rape? What if it contains nuclear codes for US army stockpile? What if it describes how to make bombs and conduct terrorist attacks?

Or maybe....we should look at who is distributing material that we have a problem with, and target it there? As a society we should never be putting people in jail for just owning a certain piece of information, would you not agree?

[klmr]

> If no, what if the book is Mein Kampf?

Incidentally there isn’t a single country (as far as I could find) where owning Mein Kampf is or was illegal. There’s a common misconception that its possession is or was illegal in Germany. However, this was never the case. Until 2016 the state of Bavaria owned the exclusive copyright and prohibited its publication. But that’s it.

[gambiting]

That's kind of my point - Owning it is not a crime. If police finds a copy in your house, you're not automatically going to jail just because you have it. At the same time, its publication and sale is either prohibited because of copyright issues or under laws which prevent sale of Nazi paraphernalia.

[klmr]

Fair enough. I was just adding this trivia since the item stuck out of your list: all the other items may (under some jurisdictions) be illegal to possess.

[andrepd]

If someone has videos of child rape on their hard drive, do you think they should be arrested and charged with a crime?

[gambiting]

Nope, unless they participated in creation of such video. If they just downloaded it off the internet, then no - maybe they should be sent for mandatory psychiatric evaluation, but to prison? No.

Let me put it this way - you can go on google right now, type in "two teenagers kill man with screwdriver", and very quickly(on dailymotion) find an EXTREMELY graphic video of two guys killing a person with a screwdriver, picking out his eyeball and playing with it, while he's still alive etc etc. It's absolutely sickening and it shows a horrendous crime being committed. Yet watching and/or downloading such a video is not a crime in itself. If police ever found such a video on your drive they would probably go "wtf dude" but nothing would happen to you. How is that different from the video you described? Because someone might wank to it? What if someone gets off on the one I described? Is it a crime before or after you get aroused?

Instead, like I said - simply having a video/picture/text/drawing of literally anything shouldn't be a crime in itself.

[TeMPOraL]

The reason for criminalizing ownership of child pornography is not just fighting about vice. It's also understanding that people consuming such media are creating demand for it, and where there is demand, there soon is also supply. Because child sexual abuse is considered to be a horrible thing, fight against people who commit that abuse happens both at the supply and demand end.

[gambiting]

I'm not sure this is actually true - but if you have sources, I would happily give them a read. It seems almost common sense that pedophiles abuse children because they want to abuse children. It gives them pleasure, so they do it - if they create a video at the same time, it's almost incidental. Unless we assume that there are people out there who wouldn't normally abuse a child, but they do it because they want to make a video and put it on the internet - then yes, demand for such videos creates supply. I find that unlikely though.

[Chriky]

That actually is often why they do it. Obviously, they are also sexually attracted to children and are evil. Those two are also requirements, but the third is the audience.

Consider this - how many people do you think make YouTube style vlogs then DON'T upload them to YouTube? Not many right - the audience is part of the inventive for making the video. Among paedophile communities first generation IIOC are highly prized.

Source: I am a criminal investigator who works exclusively on CSE

[GyYZTfWBfQw]

But if they are sexually attracted to children and are "evil", then the creation of the videos and photos are just a "side-effect", the abuse probably would have taken place regardless, right? I had people telling me that possession of child pornography leads to child abuse, what do you think? I watch gore videos[1] sometimes online and I don't want to hurt people. I watch them to remind me that there are many violent people and places out there, that not everything is butterflies and sunshine. It makes me introspect. It makes me value the society that I live in that shelters me, and makes me realize how lucky I am.

EDIT: Actually, I'm trying to come up with reasons that apply to child pornography but without any success. Not saying that they are not going to offer you a "reasonable" insight, but at this moment I can't think of anything. Perhaps something anatomy related? Medical value/curiosity?

On another note: yeah, people do crazy shit for the likes and subscribers, it's pathetic and sickening. All those challenges, etc. Ugh. I try to avoid that side of the Internet. Is it just me or is there really a decline? Yesterday I read how in UK schools they had to remove analog clocks because kids couldn't tell the time off it.

I don't know, I know so many parents who are doing a great job. Their kids don't care much about social media, they are not interested in getting likes, not interested in being YouTubers, know the potential dangers of the Internet, and so on.

[1] Albeit I don't download them, but at the same time you can probably do the same with child pornography, though from a technical point of view you probably have them cached which could be considered possession I guess.

[V-2]

Isn't the possession of eg. pedophile drawings, or (theoretically) CGI / AI-generated pedophile movies also criminalized?

[GyYZTfWBfQw]

Ah, finally someone with a more positive tone (in contrast to mine) and a better way to articulate my thoughts. Thanks. :)