[jordan0day]

Actually your example seems like a better one. Most men would read his example about rape and say (truthfully) "I would never do that!"

Neglecting to use a condom in the heat of the moment? I imagine the line becomes grayer. It's not longer this abhorrent thing where the consequences are binary (did or did not rape), but instead more of a risk/reward thing where judging the consequences requires more fuzzy logic.

[nandemo]

Interesting. Are you saying that "statutory rape" is generally considered abhorrent in the US?

I'm not from US, and in my country the roughly equivalent (but different) crime is called "seduction". It's not nearly as bad as "rape", either legally or socially. A rapist might get lynched in prison, while nobody besides a 17yo girl's parents would care about a "seducer" nowadays. Moral issues aside, unprotected sex with an adult would be much riskier than protected sex with a minor.

Would most American young men really say that they would never have consensual sex with a minor? Even if the guy is 18 and the girl is 17? My understanding is that most guys wouldn't do it in situations like a one-night-stand, when the perceived risky of being caught/charged is higher. But if the girl is their girlfriend I believe most guys would do it.

[electromagnetic]

I have friends who fell into the gray area. Forgetting a condom can be easy in the heat of the moment, especially if there was a long 'wait' before hand. However, my friends had good self control... until we got one excessively drunk and sent her home. She ended up at her boyfriends who'd been out at a party himself. 9 months later they had a kid, literally from a 1 time mistake.

I've always had strong self-control. Even when I'm excessively drunk (and I tolerate alcohol well) I am in control. I've never behaved far from the norm when intoxicated, I've had the piece of mind to ensure my wife takes her birth control pill when I've been acting like the ball in a game of pong whilst going down a corridor.

Self-control is certainly a strong factor in the gray areas. I would bet money that most rapists don't have a problem with self-control, I would say the ability to wait until an opportune time shows a high degree of self-control; a self-control issue would be an old man on a train squeezing a school girls ass. I would say rapists have an impulse-control disorder, they're willing to gamble a minor short-term gain for a huge long-term loss. Someone with self-control issue tends to gamble a small short-term gain with an normal long-term loss.

Having children isn't a life-ending consequence of having sex. In fact, it's down right average. Going to jail is a life-ending consequence for the majority of people.

A 15 year old having unprotected sex is more an impulse control disorder than a 25 year old. A 25 year old having unprotected sex and having a child is normal, if not expected in the majority of circumstances.

[tomjen3]

It would not have been a better example, because it is at least equally the womans fault (arguably more, since she has more options for birth control than he does) - statutory rape is not.

[devonrt]

That really is a much better example. The first example implies some sort of correlation between impulsiveness or lack of self control and a willingness to perform criminal behavior.