[cfadvan]

Doesn’t it make more sense to be upset at people eating pigs and dogs? Same here about octopus too, although it was never my favorite, I won’t touch the stuff. Pigs, dogs, cats... I try to avoid eating anything that can out-think a toddler.

[komali2]

This is more the line I was going down - I think in the future it will be difficult to justify, morally, the killing of any mammal for its meats. Especially when grown meat alternatives become affordable.

I say this as a staunch carnivore. I just don't see how it's morally sustainable. What if we develop methods of chemically induced greater intelligence, and a Peta activist goes to a farm and injects it into all the cows? Shit like that are what I think will eventually drive the world to vegetarianism. That or species extinction...

[pbhjpbhj]

People don't preference other people who have higher intelligence. I find it hard to imagine they will forgo eating in order to preference other species of higher intelligence.

There's a simple moral justification for atheists - morality is a human construct, we can ignore it when we find that useful.

[molloy]

What makes you a staunch carnivore, if I may ask?

[komali2]

1. I love the taste of meat

2. Cooking is my primary hobby. I am fascinated by the history and culture of it, much of which is based around meat

3. I lift a lot and can't hit my macros at reasonable calorie to protein to dollar ratio without chicken and eggs

4. I have worked on a farm and as a result, as long as I'm buying properly sourced meat (pasture raised, not factory shit) I don't feel much guilt as I have confidence the animal had a comfortable life by the normal metrics of animal life, and was killed quickly and with little pain.

[molloy]

I just woke up and saw this, going to briefly touch on these points but please don't take it as trying to argue or push my beliefs ^_^

1. Do you love the taste of meat or is it the texture of the meat + the taste of the (plant) seasonings?

2. If it is your primary hobby, you should dive more into cuisines that don't focus heavily on meat as a personal challenge (as well as trying to make plant-based versions of things), I think you'd find it a lot of fun.

3. You can, that is a common misconception but there are a lot of resources on the internet about this–on phone and precaffeinated but I can look later if you'd like.

4. This is a classic reasoning I hear, I think it is honorable that you try to eat humanely killed animals, but there are other issues (factory farming is more environmentally friendly, selective breeding causes health issues, can't be sure all farms are as ethical as the one you worked on, eating meat at basically any restaurant goes against your defense, etc.)

Need to walk my dog, make breakfast, and go to work but I am down to continue this discourse at both of our leisures–hope you have a lovely day :)

[molloy]

I agree. The only animal products I eat are bivalves, though I was vegan for three years prior and vegetarian on and off for a decade prior to that. I'm finally at a place where I feel I'm eating in line with my morals, which helps stave off depression.