[jerf]

I think most modern mathematicians would be taken aback if you told them logic is not math. You might be surprised what some logicians have gotten up to.

And sure, if you define what I talked about as not math, then you don't use math. If you don't want to use the tools of mathematical thought, be my guest. It's one of my competitive advantages in the marketplace.

But I think Dijkstra would be pretty surprised to hear that structured programming wasn't math, and you might be interested in budgeting six months or so to play with Coq or something like it, where you'll learn that the difference between proving code and what you do in just trying to make code work and debug code is much more a quantitative difference than the qualitative difference you think. There's no magic in how code proofs work... it's the same processes you use all the time if you code at any scale beyond a single screen of code, just taken to their logical conclusion.

[oreganoz]

Propositional logic / zeroth-order logic is like arithmetic. You didn't consider numbers (by which I gathered you meant arithmetic) as math, and I'm the same in saying this type of logic is not math.

Logic is a VAST field, and most programmers don't get to use most of it, that was my point.

I already played with Coq (that feels weird to say :)) ). It is a very specialized tool useful in very specific cases. I don't think it will ever be adopted as the standard way of programming since it's really unproductive.

Just because you use math that is really heavy does not mean you understand the math behind completely. We can view a ball throw as a complex quantum-mechanical physical process but we don't call ourselves theoretical physicists for being able to throw a ball.