[cgore]

Basic Income is literally taking money from people by force of law (and therefore, threat of violence) and giving it to other people, against the first person's will. It is communism and completely antithetical to any reasonable definition of libertarianism. An argument that it's less bad than other forms of government-sponsored theft isn't exactly a solid libertarian argument.

[mindslight]

And yet continual rent for a place to sleep (whether paid to banks and cities, or abstracted to private landlords) is also literally taking money from people by force of law.

I'm personally against BI in that pouring more gasoline on the inflationary fire is not going to put it out, but deflationary economics have never been popular - trying to get people to stop partying while they're having a good time is impossible, but so is bringing up the topic when they're hungover!

So long as the overriding monetary environment remains a biased towards centralized extraction, there most certainly is a libertarian argument in that those who wish to distance themselves from that technology should be able to, rather than being forced to cope within it.

[jrs235]

> And yet continual rent for a place to sleep (whether paid to banks and cities, or abstracted to private landlords) is also literally taking money from people by force of law.

I concur. And we, IMO, ought to have a CIVIL way of determining land rights lest we go back to tribalism and might makes right determinations (individual violence).

>So long as the overriding monetary environment remains a biased towards centralized extraction

And how do we pay for the resources needed to civilly determine and enforce the outcomes of claims to land? Whatever government oversees the process, local, county, state, or federal will need a way to extract something of value from those governed which is why we have fiat currency and why taxes must be paid in the form of currency controlled and dictated by said governments.

>I'm personally against BI in that pouring more gasoline on the inflationary fire is not going to put it out, but deflationary economics have never been popular

I agree with you. Rather than collect taxes to force value extraction the government could just inflate the money supply by paying those that operate it with newly created dollars. No taxation needed. I think this is a worse solution as it's easy for loose money policies to snowball. People at least feel the pinch and pain of taxes to help restrain and reign in the cost(s) of government.

>there most certainly is a libertarian argument in that those who wish to distance themselves from that technology should be able to, rather than being forced to cope within it.

I believe people should be allowed to conduct business using whatever currency they wish except for paying taxes. They'll need to obtain or convert their currency into the fiat currency of choice.

I heard there's a Libertarian paradise East of Ethiopia and Kenya for those purists that can't accept compromise.

[mindslight]

I don't see how purporting to agree while then stating the direct opposite or talking past someone with a bunch of strawman would ever be productive.

[jrs235]

See POTUS.

[mindslight]

I meant for productive conversation.

Sure, a person can employ a combative communication style to get ahead in the monkeysphere. But still, the road to being a shithead president doesn't start off with being a shithead forum commenter.

[jrs235]

Fair enough.

I failed to understand your stance from your reply to cgore. I took your response to be "agreeing while pulling back a bit on cgore's position.

I am interested in your thoughts on how to address "taking money from people by force of law (gunpoint)" You pointed out the parallel between cgore's point the BI is no different than rent on land.

It appears you're against inflationary policies and pouring gas (BI) onto the situation adds to it (unless money is taken out of supply via taxes, however the symptom of inflation is still likely to appear: an overall increase in prices.). Inflation of prices is a symptom of inflation of the money supply. But an overall increase in prices does not necessarily mean there is inflation (of the money supply).

I am also interested in your thoughts on how should we pay for the civilized framework (government) that sorts out disputes?

[rileymat2]

But if you are willing to maneuver your way in a pluralistic society, you may as well negotiate for things that are closer to your philosophy.

[_nalply]

Your money has been taken away. Choose one of:

- By random violence by burglary in your own home. The state is so weak that citizens aren't protected. You are lucky to be alive.

- By regulated «violence», i. e. taxes. The state collects taxes to provide stability, security and equality.