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by tokenizerrr 3000 days ago
E. Don't buy Apple.

You'll spend much less, and won't be supporting practices you don't approve of.

3 comments

This is not very useful advice, kind of similar to "just use Linux" when people complain about some issue they have with Windows.

For many, dropping macOS would be a much larger disruption than having less usable F-keys. That does not mean we can't complain about it.

There are plenty of other hardware manufacturers out there. One of the practices you might not wish to support is an OS being tied to a specific hardware vendor.

If you don't like the hardware you shouldn't be buying it.

> One of the practices you might not wish to support is an OS being tied to a specific hardware vendor.

Which is literally the reason why OSX is that good/stable.

I feel like the "stable" part of things has been eroding away lately. I've been very disappointed with Apple over the past few OS rollouts. The new FS went flawlessly but there have been so many fit and finish bugs, I feel like Microsoft is making it.
>> High Sierra bug where empty password gives you root

>> High Sierra patch released, breaks file sharing

>> High Sierra patch re-enables passwordless root access on certain machines

> stable

I hear it's not very good/stable now, but running a Hackintosh system of Snow Leopard - Yosemite on various hardware worked pretty well. And that's without them trying to optimize it (I guess).
so you're saying that apple has many people in a bind, many of those willingly. that's not a good negotiating position for them.
It is a crummy situation indeed. In my case for example, I am just hoping that the next generation will fix the keyboard issues and being lucky that 4 years old work computer works fine.
Or if you work with mobile apps, unable to do your job.
> This is not very useful advice, kind of similar to "just use Linux" when people complain about some issue they have with Windows.

Given that we don't know whether or not you can live with non-Apple hardware, I think it's reasonable to at least float the idea.

> For many, dropping macOS would be a much larger disruption than having less usable F-keys.

It's worth it, trust me. I dropped it almost twenty years ago, and I've never looked back. My computers are less expensive, more powerful & more flexible. My computing environment is customised to my needs, not those of some generic 20-something in Cupertino. If I want to, I can dig deep in the guts of my system and fix bugs or add features. Or I can hire someone to do it for me. Or I can just rely on the work of others (which is ultimately what Apple's customers have to do anyway: rely on Apple to fix & extend — and as their recent spate of crippling security bugs indicates, they haven't been doing a great job).

I think that comparing the operating systems of today based on how they worked 20 years ago is a bit of a stretch.

I bought my first Mac in 2009 (still kicking and alive) because I was tired of tinkering with Linux (I have abandoned Windows years before). I do look back at these systems every day at work so I do know quite well how my life would be if I really had to use them for everything.

Just one example of why I like macOS - it has a copy/paste shortcut that really does work everywhere. From Vim running in a console to my vector based drawing program of choice, out of the box.

> I think that comparing the operating systems of today based on how they worked 20 years ago is a bit of a stretch.

My family, friends & colleagues all use Apple computers & phones, so I believe that I've had pretty good exposure to them. There are a few things which macOS does better (system-wide copy/paste is clearly one), but overall I stand by what I wrote. Linux is great, and I don't thinking I'm missing anything by avoid Windows & macOS.

And give up the only good desktop operating system, retina screens and the only usable touchpad in laptops.
Give up the only usable trackpad if you move away.

Endure an objectively terrible keyboard with a massive failure rate if you stay.

(Ironically my £3K touchbar MBP return key failed to register a press right on cue when typing this comment)

The new keyboards drive me nuts, too. Old ones were 100x better. How did they not notice how quickly and crappily the keys turned to degraded mushstate? Never left the clean room?
But it had to be thin and light!

The new keyboard is usable for me but is absolutely worse than the old models.

You need to catch up. That was true, and a line I often repeated, five years ago. It couldn't be further from the truth today.

High-density ("retina") screens are a standard feature in high-end laptops. Asserting that it's an Apple exclusive feature proves your ignorance.

Many companies now make good touchpads, probably better because they actually have a physical click, which Apple has removed.

Many companies make much better keyboards today, while Apple makes worse. Even my Lenovo Yoga's keyboard, which retracts into the body of the laptop, is better than what Apple offers.

Operating systems are more subjective, but consider whether you really think and operating system whose developers have entirely abandoned it for the better part of a decade is really likely to be the best.

> retina screens and the only usable touchpad in laptops

I mean I don't have a side in this convo. But if you are gonna put up a argument at least make it not sound fanboyish.

Plenty of laptops with similar ppi (what makes retina...retina) and plenty with good touchpads.

Many reasons to choose different laptops including Apples, but those you listed the competitors have themselves. Apple just markets their retina displays as 'special' when its all about pixel density and most laptops have moved in the direction of offering comparable ppi.

> I mean I don't have a side in this convo. But if you are gonna put up a argument at least make it not sound fanboyish.

> Plenty of laptops with similar ppi (what makes retina...retina) and plenty with good touchpads.

If you're going to put up an argument at least make it sound informed. The best trackpads I've used in any other laptop manufacturer was "acceptable", and that's Microsoft's. Plenty with good touchpads? Not even remotely close.

As for retina displays, plenty of laptops with higher PPI, also plenty of laptops with scaling issues up the ass.

Sounds like you never used a Surface Book. The OS is closer to Linux than macOS thanks to WSL, the screen is truly stunning and the touchpad on-par with MacBooks.
No, they don't sell them where I live. Also I remember the 90's and never will support Microsoft willingly.
Personally, I hate the touchpad on my MBP - I find I have to press the buttons too hard, even with the sensitivity up to the max. Literally gives me sore fingers.
You might consider turning on "Tap to click" in your Trackpad settings. Instead of pressing anything, you can just lightly tap a finger anywhere on the pad to send a click. There's another option for a two-fingered tap to count as a right-click.
I'm getting an annoying amount of spurious clicks even using press-to-click. I dread to think what tap would be like.

Equally annoying is when the palm rejection kicks in because I'm trying to press too close to an edge or something, and the lack of tactile feedback makes it feel like i just stubbed my finger.

I've never seen a spurious click with press to click, but I am still on a 2015 MBP.
I'll give that a try!
I think all the things you just said are opinions, because I am existing in a non-MBP world and am happier for it, and am sad whenever I am forced to use one at work because I left my lenovo at home or whatever.

Keyboard-nub-mouse-thing for life! How do MBP users survive without it? ;P

And have even crappier hardware (thinkpads with screen resolution and disk sizes of last decade, not much cheaper, anyone?) with Win 10 preinstalled...
Dell XPS 13 has build quality comparable if not better than MacBooks, comes with Linux preinstalled, and has an optional high resolution QHD+ screen.

http://www.dell.com/en-uk/shop/laptops-notebooks-and-2-in-1-...

I tried that for half a year, and it has some issues:

- Linux applications have a lot of trouble with the HiDPI screen

- Coil whine

- Shitty battery life

- Shitty touchpad

So as whatever is Apple doing is annoying faddy bullshit, it's still the better option, especially considering the XPS 13 cost as much or more than MBP.

I'm using my XPS13 for like a year now.

> - Linux applications have a lot of trouble with the HiDPI screen

Honestly haven't noticed a single thing.

> - Coil whine

None of that.

> - Shitty battery life

What's shitty? It lasts 5 hours of me working with VMs. I don't think expecting more is reasonable. It's much less laggy than my collegue's MBP, which leads me to assume that Mac just throttles the CPU down to achieve longer battery life? I don't want that.

> - Shitty touchpad

Not at all. It works nicely. Much better than most touchpads I've used.

And as an added bonus, it doesn't get burning hot to the touch when doing actual work on it. Nor does it sound like it's about to take off. And it was like 1.5K EUR vs 3K EUR for a macbook pro.

>> Linux applications have a lot of trouble with the HiDPI screen

> Honestly haven't noticed a single thing.

I've got a coworker sitting right next to me with a HiDPI main + non-HiDPI secondary screen. X or Wayland, it's a thousand cuts of hell: set native resolution and render scaling to 200% and you get some (most) apps at 200% on the non-HiDPI screen. Drag an app from HiDPI to non-HiDPI and notice how the overflow is wrongly scaled. There's no way to render at 200% on a non-native resolution then downsample to native, you have to set a non-native resolution, upsampled by the GPU/panel, which results in a useless blurry mess.

> it doesn't get burning hot to the touch when doing actual work on it. Nor does it sound like it's about to take off.

Early '13 and mid '14 13" rMBP here, VMs don't lag, slightly warm, but in no way "burning hot". Early '13 is dead silent thanks to dual fan design, mid '14 slightly less so, and only when I peg all cores for long enough.

> I've got a coworker sitting right next to me with a HiDPI main + non-HiDPI secondary screen. X or Wayland, it's a thousand cuts of hell: set native resolution and render scaling to 200% and you get some (most) apps at 200% on the non-HiDPI screen.

I have quite literally both sides of this problem on my Windows laptop at work. Either the 4K display on the laptop renders everything really tiny, or the 1080p displays make everything huge. I haven't found a decent solution, so I just end up using the 4K display only for Conemu because it's the only thing that doesn't render in some goofy way. Even then, the toolbar icons for it are tiny, and any windows it spawns (e.g. warning that I'm about to paste something with newlines) have tiny icons.

I stick to 1440p displays at home for now. Those work great with everything.

I was trapped in HiDPI hell for a while as well, especially because I was dual-screened with a 4k monitor.

The world became a better place when I swapped ubuntu for Debian and Unity for Gnome. Shit just works now...

Yea, I did have to set scaling at 200%, and tweak font scaling once. But it's been set and forget.

Well, I'm not really sure what to say other than that I don't have any of those issues. Sitting here right now with my HiDPI XPS13 screen and a regular HDMI monitor. Things look good and I have no scaling issues. Haven't messed with any of the settings, it's just an Ubuntu install with i3.

I don't know any specific macbook models as I'm not an apple user and there is like no visual distinction between them. All I know is that I have two coworkers who use macbooks, and theirs are incredibly loud & warm.

> it doesn't get burning hot to the touch when doing actual work on it

The latest generation of Macs definitely run cool, fwiw. I've never once noticed the heat

I don't understand why this was downvoted. This has been consistently my experience whenever I tried switching to a non-Mac notebook. On paper the specifications look great, but in practice the hardware configuration is better tested for Macs and everything just works smoother.
Same here. Mine has an idiotically loud coil whine and sometimes fails to go to sleep(the screen switches off but the computers stays on, resulting in a scorching hot laptop when you pull it out of your bag). The touchpad is horrendous, frequently jumping the cursor when you click on it. I've had the motherboard replaced 3(!!!!) times now, and all of those issues are still present, and from what I heard they are not exclusive to just one generation of the XPS - it's almost like Dell engineers can't make a small laptop without coil whine.
We use these XPSes and the current MBPs here. I do not recommend the QHD screens on a 13", if you ever flip Linux to text mode it is just about unreadable, and I think only MacOS handles HiDPI elegantly. Ubuntu needs a lot of tweaks to be usable.

I also agree that the trackpads are very poor, and that's still one of Apple's main strengths. Although quite why the trackpad needs to be quite so enormous on the current models is a mystery to me, so many people catch it when typing.

> if you ever flip Linux to text mode it is just about unreadable

    setfont sun12x22
[0]: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Fonts#Console_fonts
I just tried this on an Ubuntu machine and sun12x22 doesn't exist. After some poking around and reading the linked wiki page, I found that Lat2-VGA32x16 (case-sensitive) produced a readable display. Given that running `setfont` on its own errors with `Cannot find default font`, I wonder if the default Ubuntu install neglects some things.
Thanks, I'll try this. Could have used it yesterday when I had to recover an XPS via the TTY...
I actually prefer QHD screen since it looks great with 2x scaling (and I don't really care about text mode which is only useful for recovery). I have no problems with HiDPI or touchpad after upgrading from the ancient 16.04 LTS that comes preinstalled. I hope that the next edition would come with 18.04 LTS which should offer a much better user experience out of the box.
I've tried the alpha on a Acer Surface-esque tablet with a HiDPI screen and agree 18.04 is much, much better out of the box - scaling was set sensibly and usably on first boot. Very much looking forward to the release.
I can't say anything about Linux on XPS 13 because I didn't tried it, but for build quality... that's questionable. In my small company we have horrible failure rate with XPS 13 (seven of eight had some problems, from failing fans and SSDs to 'it just died on me'). Macs are much better in that regard. And the price between these two is comparable.
Tried Dell once and didn’t like it. Dont remember exactly why. Plus the service to return the unsatisfying product was complicated. Last time i checked there was still something missing in the xps linux system so it wasn’t an option and i decided to leave Linux as main OS after 20 years. MacOS is not better in general, mainly it just has different annoyances e.g. less open and configurable - but therefore not changing things i got used to so fast as Ubuntu and the various graphical desktop suites (yes the superspecial tabbed window managers are more stable, but i dont like them) which seem to try new stuff i don’t need and like with every release.

I‘m based in Germany by the way, so my choice of products here might be different...

This is what I use, and as far as I can tell it's better than a MacBook in just about every way.
It’s a matter of taste i guess.

Unless you tell more about what you like in the one and what not in the other it’s hard to get a value from your experience report.