[smoothgrips]

> Not every lunatic where I live can find a gun when they need one

While I agree it is more difficult to find a gun in Europe than in America, that doesn't mean that a lunatic _can't_ get a gun. Guns exist in EU countries that have very strict gun laws. If said lunatic was determined enough, they _will_ get their hands on one.

> Despite these strict laws, France seems to be awash with guns.

> In 2012, French authorities estimated that there were around 30,000 guns illegally in the country, many likely used by gangs for criminal activities.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/11/16...

Firearms in Europe _are_ available, they're just harder to find. But I believe that if someone is determined enough, they'll find them, and use them.

Places like England, and Whales, which have very strict gun laws in comparison with places like the US, still suffer from gun related homicides all the time.

> gun crime in England and Wales soared by 35% last year. [...] Criminals used handguns in 46% more offences, Home Office statistics revealed. [...] Firearms were used in 9,974 recorded crimes in the 12 months to last April, up from 7,362. [...] It was the fourth consecutive year to see a rise

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-154307/Gun-crime-soa...

[peteey]

There is merit to making guns harder to find.

A crime motivated by anger might not happen if a few days pass while searching for a weapon. Passion fades with time

Effort is also a factor. Most people I have worked with will completely fail at a task if it requires them to get up from their desk and talk to someone. Finding a gun on the black market seems significantly harder than a shopping trip to Walmart

[INTPenis]

Your arguments are pretty hollow to me.

Comparing your proposed 30000 guns in France with more guns than inhabitants in the US.

Yes people get guns here in Sweden. You see it on the news almost weekly sometimes how gang members shoot each other. Smuggled weapons or imported plugged weapons that have been modified into live firearm.

This argument still does not negate the fact that it's much harder to get your hands on a working firearm. And that makes all the difference in crimes of passion.

[smoothgrips]

> Comparing your proposed 30000 guns in France with more guns than inhabitants in the US.

My point is, even countries with very strict gun laws have lots of guns, most of which are illegal, but they're still there, still accessible to people who want them and go through the effort to get them.

> This argument still does not negate the fact that it's much harder to get your hands on a working firearm.

I wasn't trying to negate that. In fact, I agreed: "While I agree it is more difficult to find a gun in Europe than in America..."

I'm countering this claim that you made:

>Not every lunatic where I live can find a gun when they need one

I believe that, yes, any lunatic _can_ find a gun. Yes, again, I agree, they are harder to get. However, I do believe that if said lunatic _really_ wanted one, he'd find one.

[INTPenis]

Well if you call criminals lunatics, which is a fair assessment, then yes. But not every person has contacts in the criminal underworld.

You're just going to have to trust me that I have a first hand perspective of both worlds in one european country and I can promise you that it's not easy to get a gun for any average person. Unless they are willing to jump through the legal hoops to get a licensed firearm.

One of my co-workers did this and from start to finish I think it took him a year to get a handgun. This does not count the hunting license because he was not interested in hunting, he wanted a handgun.

And once acquired he has to report to the police every route he wants to take with the handgun. For example between his home and the gun club.

And storage of the gun unloaded in a locked safe goes without sayhing.

Another friend had an AK47 brought up from Serbia, because macho reasons, and he was only allowed to have it because he was a member of the home guard here. But he had it mounted on the wall, once the police found out they forced him to take it down, disassemble it and store it in three different pieces as it was meant to.