[scaryspooky]

I currently run a Linux desktop (Ubuntu 17.10) on Apple hardware. The list of problems:

The camera fails to work consistently (the driver does not always load)

Audio fails to work consistently (restarting pulse fixes this)

Closing the laptop lid initially sleeps, but then the laptop wakes up a few minutes later for no reason (so I wrote a script to disable all the events that can wake the laptop up, but this in turn causes it to not wake up at all sometimes when I actually want it to)

kde plasmashell will crash if I try to use ffplay, and doesn't reliably recover so I end up needing to restart my session which loses any work I hadn't saved since I can't switch windows

These are all problems I have never experienced with my Windows laptop, nor macOS.

Anecdotes obviously, but I've been trying to go only Linux for the past decade and never felt like I could reliably do so.

[madez]

> I currently run a Linux desktop (Ubuntu 17.10) on Apple hardware.

It's important to buy hardware that is supported and properly documented by the manufacturer. Apple is not one of those that do that.

[scaryspooky]

If these were issues I've only encountered on the Apple hardware I would agree. I've encountered issues like these on every computer I've put Linux on, which is every computer I've built or bought since 1996.

[dmix]

Then, again, you weren't using the right hardware. I've used Linux on two Dell XPS and three different Thinkpads in the last 5yrs and I haven't had a single hardware issue. And we're still talking about very popular, affordable, and accessible devices.

It's nothing like it was 5-10yrs ago.

The person you're replying to is right, using Linux is a lot like using MacOS, you need the right hardware for the software. I too had issues with Macbooks and it was like night/day switching to Dell/Lenovo when using Linux. When everything works, desktop Linux is very nice and on the same tier (or better) to MacOS as a programmer.

[e12e]

I've had issues with early releases/preview builds of windows 10 too. Even on Microsoft hardware.

If you want a stable experience, you'll need a lts release with supported hardware. Eg for Ubuntu: 16.04 along with a Dell xps. Or red hat, debian stable or whatever.

Fortunately Ubuntu 18.04 is just around the corner.

Not saying poor hw vendor support for Linux isn't still a problem. But my parents have actually had more issues upgrading to Windows 10 (firewire drivers not working, won't be fixed by vendor or ms).

Seems to be trend that when hw doesn't work on Windows, it's "pc doesn't work/is difficult", on Mac it's "well, third party, can't expect it to work". But with Linux it's always: "Linux is crap".

[scaryspooky]

I never said Linux is crap, do not put those words in my mouth.

I said the Linux desktop experience has not been good to me, with any of the hardware (even the stuff I picked specifically for good support) with very popular hardware. I still use Linux as my desktop OS, and really would love to ditch Windows 10 permanently but don't feel like I can without a lot of frustration. The same as it has been for the past 20 years for me.

[e12e]

Apologies, I could've been more clear that I didn't mean to imply you said Linux was crap; more that in general many users seem more ready to blame Linux when faced with the mess that pcs sometimes are.

[gbraad]

Apple hardware always have me issues, starting with the wireless drivers or power management.

With ThinkPad I never had an issue.

[jezbo3939]

Be me

Perform vanilla install of Windows 10 on new desktop build

Watch it sporadically work with Logitech 920 webcam

Watch it randomly not load network device at boot

Watch it show me a blank login screen with no ability to pick a user or enter pwd

Watch it “lose” a USB connected Brother laser printer

Watch it ...

I’m pretty sure Windows and Apple get a pass on quality because we’re low level conditioned to give Big Corp products a pass

The Ubuntu + i3 setup I’ve been rolling for years now has not given me any more or less odd ball problems than Win or OSX

OSX on my work laptop reboots every day. I have Firefox and Slack and some stuff installed via homebrew, on a 2017 MacBook from work. Every morning “your computer is recovering from a shutdown”. Even if I shut the software. IT hasn’t figured it out, Apple can’t and won’t replace hardware that tests ok

Watch FaceTime just stop doing anything every call I make with it

Oooh and the WiFi issues with Mac that I haven’t had with Linux since wpa_supplicant was managed by hand

But Apple has their “just works” rep. I mean it “just loads” then just needs a reload everyday seems more accurate

I’m not saying Linux isn’t a quirky chore

I’m saying it doesn’t seem any quirkier than the competition going off my daily experiences with all 3

[BuckRogers]

I've very rarely had an issue with Windows that wasn't fixed by replacing faulty/failing hardware. While not a hard rule, your issues sound exactly like that's the root cause. Time for a new motherboard or PSU. Most people just never realize it is failing, blame the OS. Everyone who has done deep stints into desktop Linux knows that's definitely not the case over there and Windows does a fantastic job at covering up hardware errors as much as it can, more than people realize.

Starting from my Commodore128 till today, other than that original Commodore, I haven't seen anything else as well-built as Windows. macOS & desktop Linux distros included. I hate to elevate one above the other but my honest opinion starting on desktops in 1986 that Windows is the most rock solid desktop OS out there today. Microsoft has to ensure it's the most battle tested by necessity, given that even back in 2011 it ran 1+ billion[0] devices. There's nothing else even in the same league for desktop operating systems when it comes to exposure, testing & fixes in the QA feedback loop. Even the big player, Ubuntu, doesn't come close.

[0]http://www.businessinsider.com/right-now-there-are-125-billi...

[_ea1k]

I basically agree with you. Though I think you are ultimately exaggerating windows and Mac problems, they are far from nonexistent.

[PascLeRasc]

I haven't seen the quirk where Linux doesn't allow typing full sentences before.

[Zardoz84]

kUbuntu 17.10 + Kubuntu backports from 18.04 + kernel 4.15 (AMD open-source support of HDMI sound it's here)

- Works flawless. - No issues with the webcam. - Plasmashell don't crash. - Even I can use my old Epson C-62 printer where on Windows I can't!

And I have nearly the same configuration on my workplace without issues.

The only issues that I notice: - Skype for linux is garbage. - OBS doing weird thing the last time that I try, I need to update it.

[_ea1k]

Yep, I love Linux on the Desktop, but its really only a thing that works well when all of the hardware is supported. That happens surprisingly often with commodity hardware, but it isn't exactly something that I'd expect every random gamer to be able to reliably deal with.

[unixhero]

Those are completely your problems. Linux works perfectly driverwise and usage wise. Even for my older familu members.

[always_good]

Well, the luck of the draw experience with Linux is precisely one of its problems.

Works perfectly? Exaggeration isn't going to change anything. "Those anecdotes are bullshit but mine aren't, they were doing it wrong" is a common trope in these discussions.

At least with laptops, there are models that you can research and see if other people have been successful using a Linux distro on them.

Building your own Linux gaming rig is then that much harder in comparison for most people.