[unclepresent]

for everyone who wants to expirience a hell of developing software for linux under OSX i suggest to try to build apache httpd server from source on mac. it seems to be a trivial task on Linux but it is a hell of nightmare on OSX. I am saying this just because having a custom build version of apache is a commin need for many web projects.

[Myrmornis]

Once you've got to the point of needing to match your production server technology, doesn't it feel like you should be using a VM or docker (assuming you're tied to MacOS as the development environment)?

[stiGGG]

Yeah, i don't understand this argument. Even all the devs i know working under linux are doing all their development under docker or VMs to match the live environment and being able to switch between different projects more easily. And even when you have only one project, who wants to run debian stable or centos as his main OS?

[unclepresent]

I do use docker. Do not worry about this part.

But first of all development without docker is much faster. Setting up a docker container takes some time (especially with a custom built apache server).

Secondly running a docker machine (needs a Linux VM) on mac in parallel to Vagrant (I have to use it too) is CPU taxing as both (docker machine and vagrant) VMs take a lot of power from main CPU.

Add to this constant port conflicts and network paths resolutions issues between different docker containers and hosts. Also it forces me to use Oracle Virtual Box (who likes Oracle ?) These little things all add up.

My point is that what should be a trivial task, is not so trivial when deployment is done on one platform and development is done on another. I agree with original comment that it probably makes sense for industry as a whole to switch to Linux development workstation instead of Mac.

The only reason I use Mac besides it is a company policy is because OSX somehow able to render better fonts. My eyes are getting tired after looking on poorly rendered fonts from Linux machines. If you use Mac and want to see how Linux fonts look like - install SeaMonkey browser. It turns off all proprietary patented algorithms available on OSX and renders fonts exactly as on pure Linux where due to some licensing issues many nice font rendering technics are disabled.

[tracker1]

Do an intermediate container, and it shouldn't take very long for repeat builds.

[zeveb]

> Even all the devs i know working under linux are doing all their development under docker or VMs

I don't, because docker is a buggy, embarrassingly-poorly-designed system and VMs are a pain. I develop on the same system I deploy on: Debian stable.

> And even when you have only one project, who wants to run debian stable or centos as his main OS?

I loathe CentOS, but I love Debian stable. It's a wonderful, solid (one might even say … stable) system. Why wouldn't I want to run it as my main OS?

One of the things I really hate about our development culture is the cult of the new. It's a good thing to use stable, well-tested systems. Let others find the bugs; I'm happy to get work done.

[gurkendoktor]

> who wants to run debian stable or centos as his main OS?

I haven't used these two in particular, but if they support flatpak, why not? You'd have the same packages as on the server plus the latest versions of GUI apps.

[stiGGG]

Interesting point, is flatpak already a mature thing?

[gurkendoktor]

I've used flatpak on an Ubuntu 16.04 base without issues. There are limitations, for example you can't easily replace/update your window manager through flatpak or snap. But for user-facing apps, it's really a great step forward.