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by Scaevolus 3002 days ago
It's less severe, but nicotine alone is carcinogenic.
3 comments

Okay, but so is standing near combustion-engine vehicles, cooking, soldering, shopping at stores full of air freshener, and many other things. There are many other common activities that have even higher risk of death/injury.

When walking around town with my 1.5 year old, I commonly see people smoking cigarettes outside freak out and start apologizing, worried that they might blow one puff of smoke in the general direction of a baby. But at that point we are talking about a ridiculous level of concern for a trivial risk.

As they say, the dose makes the poison. We should make public policy based on careful risk analysis, not absolutist reflex.

Auto emissions are heavily regulated and many states also regulate in-door air quality including cooking so I am not sure what you are arguing for.
I speculate that standing near existing (heavily regulated) combustion vehicles, going to existing (heavily regulated) restaurants, cooking using existing (regulated) methods and tools, etc. has a decent chance of being a greater health risk than breathing nicotine alone. I am not an expert though, so would love to hear some actual evidence about it.

We have now had decades of (publicly beneficial) propaganda effort driving home the “frequent smoking = deadly” message. In many peoples’ minds that message has been broadened by association “frequent smoking = deadly” ⇒ “any smoking = deadly” ⇒ “breathing any second-hand smoke in any context for any amount of time = deadly” ⇒ “any use of nicotine = deadly”, so there is a natural inclination to reflexively ban the use of vaporizers as well.

But if the vaporizers are largely being used as a replacement for (orders of magnitude more dangerous) cigarettes, that seems like an unambiguously positive development which should be applauded, not restricted. Fears about second-hand smoke from vaporizers in well-ventilated spaces seem likely to be entirely baseless.

http://acronymrequired.com/2011/10/the-four-dog-defense.html

It’s a bit wearying to hear the old chestnuts trotted out here of all places. It seems like bad arguments and FUD never really change, they just finds new adherents.

This seems like you are being argumentative for no good reason. You may have misread the above post.

It seems to me that jacobolus was not defending vaping but merely wondering if we're all being a bit over-reactive at this point.

That position is not so much comparable to your referenced four-dog-defense as it is to something like "you've got a better chance of being killed by a lightening bolt than killed in a terrorist attack".

And that is a valid point to make when discussing any issue involving risk. Humans are prone to reacting to perceived risks without considering comparative risks factors. https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/11/perceived_ris...

Could you please source this claim? A quick google search is revealing a lot of contrary evidence.
This summary is a few years old but still relevant :

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4363846/#__ffn_...

Long before that publication, however, Wright SC (et al) published a paper still referenced today in toxicology textbooks entitled "Nicotine inhibition of apoptosis suggests a role in tumor production" [ FASEB J. 1993; 7:1045-1051 ]

Nicotine is considered a nootropic that increases cognitive ability. Perhaps the kids are using it to up regulate their brains?

Studies here: https://www.selfhacked.com/blog/28-proven-health-benefits-ni...

From what I recall of being a kid, kids are using it to get social validation.

Also, because once you get addicted, nicotine withdrawal is bloody awful.

I'm always surprised that the main reason people smoke is not cited first.

For all you that haven't done it: smoking causes pleasure. A fast, intense and repeatable pleasure.

As someone who's never smoked, but has stood next to people who have, I would guess it does quite the opposite. I imagine most people who don't smoke think this.
The first times you do it, it feels pretty good. Really good, in fact. However, like any drug, you develop a tolerance and a dependence. Before long, you require it to feel normal, not to feel good.
You are saying that people who smoke do not enjoy smoking?
Citation? NICE, for one, says there is no known cancer risk from nicotine alone: https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ph45/chapter/3-Consideratio...