[maxpupmax]

I think they all seem to have a pretty scientific explanation. Don't we see research on meditation pop up here almost every other week?

I guess I'm pretty firmly in the atheist-materialist camp here. If you don't mind me asking, what happened to you to convince you otherwise?

[davebryand]

Thanks for asking. Here is a grab bag in rough order of events. (Spent years 1-20 as Catholic, and years 21-39 as an atheist)

* Leaving my third "failed" startup, post YC. (For the record, my awesome co-founders sold to Cisco after I had left)

* Working with a coach to find and clearly define my deepest values

* Leaving San Francisco to align my life with those values

* Deciding to search for the meaning of life

* Truly realizing that the meaning of life isn't accumulation of money or stuff, and that my identity needn't be tied to those goals

* Wrestling with my ego and deciding it does not deserve primacy

* Donating many of my possessions

* Fasting (many 2-3 day water fasts, 5 day as peak)

* Reading 20-30 books on different spiritual traditions

* Watching hundreds of hours of lectures on esoteric systems and spiritual traditions

* Researching Tarot, Kaballah, Freemasonry, and other ancients systems of enlightenment

* Studying Zen and Taoism

* Learning about [Natural Law](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASUHN3gNxWo) and allowing myself to honestly imagine if that is the way that the universe works

* Experimenting with psychedelics

* Practicing Transcendental Meditation twice daily

* Getting out in nature and learning about plants

* Explicitly working to balance my left and right brain by beginning to trust my intuition

* Keeping a diary of synchronicities and searching for deeper connections than I previously allowed myself to believe could exist

* Opening myself up to the possibility that there is more to the universe than that which has been explained by science

* Learning the eight-circuit model of consciousness

* Researching state of the art physics

* Refactoring, uninstalling or rewriting the legacy operating system and long ago installed background processes that were my subconscious

* Buying a house

* Taking guitar lessons

* Teaching myself to draw

* Releasing fear and deciding to love everyone and everything

* Adopting an amor fati attitude

* Living for the present moment

* Finding my higher self and living out of it on a daily basis

[foldr]

Holy shit. I'd rather be unenlightened than do all that.

[davebryand]

I would have thought so, too--it just sort of happened :)

[shanghaiaway]

I mean no offense but just want to note that a lot of these are things you can and maybe should do in your twenties. Excluding buying house of course.

Traveling, meeting new and sometimes weird people, trying drugs, etc. So maybe spending your 20s heads down in the startup world isn't great for everyone.

[wilsonnb]

The Wikipedia page for the eight-circuit model of consciousness explained what it was pretty well but presented no evidence or arguments in favor of it.

Do you know of any sources that that give such arguments?

I am also curious as to how state of the art physics fits into the rest of your list. I assume it's related to the eight-circuit model and opening yourself up to the possibility that there is more to the universe than that which has been explained by science, due to it's placement in the list, but I would be interested in knowing how those concepts relate in your mind.

[davebryand]

Like most things that involve consciousness, the evidence is personal and experiential (Which is why people use the term psuedo-science for much of the information in this domain. Ironically, I now use that label as a signal for further research as opposed to something that I would reject out of hand). In my case, when I found the 8-circuit model, it was the best framework that I had found to explain the changes to my consciousness that I was experiencing. Like anything else that purports to describe reality, it's a model (the map), it's not truth (the territory).

In terms of physics, you pretty much got it. Coming to understand that reality is much weirder and less understood than the Newtonian, mechanistic mental models that I grew up with was a revelation. I don't have actionable insights other than the relaxing of the assumption that there were authorities out there that had it all figured out.

[wilsonnb]

I agree that models based on personal experiences can be helpful. The first five circuits in the eight-circuit model seem to be pretty standard psychological/philosophical thought to me, although I am not really trained in either of those disciplines.

However, things kind of go off the rails when the sixth circuit directly claims that LSD enables telepathic communication. At this point the map enters the territory of things that are scientifically testable and as far as I know, telepathy has been tested many times and never proven.

Circuit eight is similar with it's claims of non-local awareness at the human conciousness level.

I am in favor of relaxing the assumption that everything has been figured out but this model instead appears to be throwing out the scientific method. I understand that it's a map used to describe the territory of consciousness but I don't see how it's a very useful map unless you're already assuming that consciousness is not 100% in the physical brain.

Such an assumption runs counter to the current (majority) scientific thought which, as you say, is not necessarily a bad thing. However, without any evidence presented that give reason to think the assumption might be true, I see no reason to follow this model more than I see a reason to follow a model that says God created the universe in seven days or that a race of sentient super-intelligent Beavers chewed the universe out of the fabric of the space time continuum.

[gowld]

pseudo-science is deceptive promotion of falsehoods. Under-informed speculation is more "quasi-science"

[ccozan]

...and somehow missed the most important thing of the humanity: have some children, raise them as proper humans and pass them your knowledge and wisdom.

All the above points have their share of being somewhat important, and certainly help to live a life as close to reality as possible, but children tops everything out.

[davebryand]

This is a great point. I started that list with leaving SF, but you're absolutely right that having kids is truly what started turning my ship in a whole different direction.