[icebraining]

No computers actually come without the means of making them productive; they all have a JS engine. It's how I learned programming, almost twenty years ago - IE5 on a public computer.

That said, I do agree that programming should be made more accessible. Bret Victor and others seem to be exploring new ways of doing that, besides making computing more physical:

https://dynamicland.org/

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15962730

[mmjaa]

There are many who think that JS is not an acceptable means of developing applications for computers. It may be effective, but not acceptable.

(Disclaimer: I'm one of them, so this argument doesn't really appeal to me personally. I'd rather there were tools that don't require me to have a lobotomy to use them..)

[matthewmacleod]

Those people are universally wrong

[mmjaa]

Rubbish. Javascript is far from acceptable as a first language to learn and use.

[matthewmacleod]

Nah. Any language is acceptable as a first language. I started writing BASIC. Gatekeeping is for losers.

[jasonkostempski]

If there was a standard IDE for using js, HTML and CSS to build desktop apps and games that shipped with major OSs I bet it would get used a ton. Click icon, start new template project. Any more steps required to get started and it will be ignored.