[pkaye]

All the large orders would go the China anyway and nobody can "keep the lights on" with just a small order flow like yours. I remember around 2000 when SV was still full of machine shops that would do prototype and volume manufacturing of parts. Slowly they got moved to Texas and then overseas. Initially the volume manufacturing got moved elsewhere but these shops can't subsist on just prototype volumes alone. Then in a later job, same thing happened to PCBs.

[Chaebixi]

I may be totally wrong, but isn't there some pressure in the other direction because of the prototype turnaround times with overseas manufacturing? I've read articles about people claiming they were able to iterate much faster using domestic prototyping.

[pkaye]

Maybe for 1-3 days turnaround local is better but it you can wait a week, the overseas prototyping can save you a lot of money. You have to deal with the communications gap but you can hire people locally to bridge that gap.

[Animats]

The communications gap is worse with US companies.

- "You have to speak with the sales rep for your area for that, and he's out until next week".

- "We don't make that any more." "Then why is it on your web site?"

- "The order form on your web site doesn't work".

- "Live chat is not available at this time".

- "Your call is very important to us. Please leave a message."

Companies in China seem to rely on email, and they answer emails. (I wonder if perhaps spam is less of a problem in China, because the government is very hostile to mass communications from anonymous parties.)

[kilo_bravo_3]

I don't even know how some US manufacturers stay in business with how abysmal they are at actually conducting business.

I work in aerospace product development, and my company has projects where we can source components from anywhere and projects where components must be US-supplied.

If I need a 12-fiber Male MT to Female MTP custom wiring harness I have to play email and phone rinky-dink with some regional rep for weeks to get it ordered when dealing with US-based suppliers. Then it has to go up and down the "value adding" chain between the rep, the sales department, business management, purchasing, and finally manufacturing. I have to have an account, deal with purchase orders, and the terms are usually 30-90 days ARO.

Or I can send a crudely-drawn picture with connector part numbers and some basic length figures to a cable house in China, get a quote the next business day, and order the damn thing with a credit card and have it in my hands in a week or two.

And no, the quality is no different. OM3 is OM3, Amphenol connectors are Amphenol connectors, and skill is almost irrelevant when the whole thing gets done up in the same automated fusion splicer that a US firm would use.

With US-based companies that are actually subsidiaries of international firms, I have an entire address book full of points of contact in the "mothership".

With US-based companies that have substantial overseas presences, like the company formerly known as GE Intelligent Platforms, even then the overseas folks are less worthless than the US-based ones.

It actually is a major source of job dissatisfaction when I have to get stuff done and the only POC I have for something I need is "[e-mail]" when I know for stone-cold certain that there's a Wang Da Nian in Shenzhen who will abuse Google Translate for hours trying to get my employer's money.

[sverige]

> Then it has to go up and down the "value adding" chain between the rep, the sales department, business management, purchasing, and finally manufacturing.

This times 10. One factor is that many US manufacturers incentivize their sales people so heavily that it actively interferes with getting things done, because that sales rep has to be involved every step of the way.

Another factor is the (apparently) natural tendency of all purchasing departments to become little bureaucracies that turn themselves into the customer by requiring the people who want to buy stuff to do it their way. ('Their' referring to purchasing or whatever the department is called.) Often that bad habit of turning themselves into the customer spreads to other departments.

In fact, I have seen software in use that turns entire sales departments into the customer, insisting that people calling for quotes spend far too much time providing information in the order the application requires it rather than allowing sales people to do what they are supposed to be best at: finding out what the customer wants and giving it to them for a price. I could have solved that problem, but it's tough to get directors interested in changing those kinds of things, let alone VPs and C level executives.

[qume]

Exactly my experience in the US. Then I tried China and am now used to getting fast polite responses literally 365 days per year.

And they appreciate the business.

To be fair I have learned better how to get stuff done in the US - pick up the phone. But unless you're ordering for huge military contracts good luck getting past the attitude.

[pkaye]

I guess everything has become emails and messages now but back when I dealt with local manufacturers (ie machine shops, PCB, etc,) I would just drop by their office and talk with their engineers, brainstorm on the white board, etc. And if your employer was big enough, they would come to your office.