[Cthulhu_]

Depends on what you define as hard work. There's stories on Reddit's late stage capitalism subforum about a graduated biochemist entertaining customers at Starbucks with random facts; it was considered cute by the original poster, like, wow, a smart barista. While it was sad that he worked hard to get his papers but couldn't land a job.

[Rescis]

Simply because they worked hard to get the degree doesn't mean that the degree is useful, or benefits society.

If there is currently an over saturation of bio-chemists in relation to the amount of jobs open, he cannot add anything to the greater food. From that, there is no reason that his degree/hard work should grant him personal benefits, as he would be taking more than he is giving. Very few people would argue that someone who does a bunch of worthless hard work (something like digging ditches and refilling them) deserves stuff, simply because it required a lot of effort, as what they are doing adds no value to society. Therefore, if the biochemist has a degree that took him a lot of time and work, but isn't needed, there is no reason he should get benefits just because he did work.

I believe the issue is people saying "hard work leads to success" fail to add on that "hard work leads to success, given that you are doing something valuable".

[alexashka]

Maybe it should be a little more clear what is considered 'valuable', before people spend years of their life's efforts and a great deal of money on education.

[malvosenior]

The data is readily available to make an informed decision. It’s the responsibility of the person getting in debt to do the research.

[s73v3r_]

Except that can change within the 4-5 year lag time between entering school and graduating.

[malvosenior]

People definitely should not be making huge bets on such unstable industries.

[alexashka]

Forgive my ignorance - where is this data?

[malvosenior]

Pretty much everywhere. Here’s the first google result for “starting salary by major”: http://time.com/money/collection-post/3829776/heres-what-the...

[kaolti]

I don't see how job opportunities in any field reflect on whether or not hard work is effective?

[FranzFerdiNaN]

It proves that hard work had nothing to do with succeeding. Getting a biochemistry degree is hard work yet it gave the owner nothing more than a job a high schooler can do.

[s73v3r_]

Presumably they worked hard to get that degree.

[monocasa]

I'll throw in a personal anecdote too.

The hardest worker I've ever met was the manager of the produce department at a grocery store I worked at as a teenager. He was here on political asylum from a South American country. His (and my) manager lied to the state department to get him deported because "Mexicans need to go back to where they belong". Afaik he's now rotting in a particularly shitty prison despite doing everything he should have and more.