[ObjectiveSub]

It's so strange seeing these numbers and thinking "Really, I thought we got paid more?" It's making me think that perhaps I'm in a bubble. Everyone I know around me (friends, coworkers, etc.) makes at least 200k combined income, with the average being in the high 200s. This is at FANG, mind you. Are the salaries outside of FANG really that much lower? Even in LA/SF? Can anyone comment on that?

[pmcollins]

I had to google this: FANG == Facebook Amazon Netflix Google

[otoburb]

I ran across BATFANG[1] recently in a conversation and while finding the term(s) equally confusing, at least it's slightly more inclusive.

[1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/bats-vs-fangs-why-chinas-tech-h...

[dasil003]

They don't once mention total comp, it's all about salary, outside of large corporations this isn't far off, but for FANG this makes a big difference. Even if they are including RSUs, there's no way they can reasonably value ISOs which are huge for the middle-tier startups.

The other thing is the average/median is almost certainly being brought down by the loads of juniors, and tiny ramen-style startups that aren't paying shit. On the flip side, they may be excluding some engineering management roles on the top end.

Also, remember that outside your bubble there are a lot of companies of all sizes that need software engineers and don't have access to the same talent pool. There are an awful lot of people hanging out pulling a salary that have absolutely no business being software developers, and are happy to make $50-80k by just knowing enough to fly under the radar in a big shop.

[spyspy]

Yes? Most companies don't start new grads at $120K+ and don't heap thousands of dollars of stock on their employees every year. Developers rotating between the FANG companies can also negotiate larger pay bumps than the rest of us.

[eganist]

They can be, yes, but only in cities where cost of living is not driven by technical talent. For instance, downtown DC's cost of living is rapidly approaching that of SF, but engineering roles here can pay nontrivially less than those in SF because a lot of the CoL is driven by legal, lobbying, and niche defense/IC work, and most companies hiring talent aren't right in the heart of the city. General engineering doesn't have the demand to drive the price wars you're seeing in cities like SF.

I mused on SF pricing as well in a different top-level comment here, and I'm solidly convinced based on what data I've seen that devskiller's numbers here are objectively misrepresenting the current state of talent pricing in SF. Can't comment on LA, but it wouldn't surprise me if LA was similar to DC in that CoL has skyrocketed because of other inflows of liquidity, e.g. passive income through the entertainment industry.

[cimmanom]

I don't know anyone making $200K outside a bank. Senior salaries in NYC (which is a high-price/high-salary city) tend to run around $150K, give or take 20% (for 10+ years of experience, not someone with 2.5 years experience and a "senior" title).

[Alex3917]

> Senior salaries in NYC (which is a high-price/high-salary city) tend to run around $150K, give or take 20%

At startups maybe, senior developers at established companies earn more like 300k+.

[spyspy]

I'd be very interested to see an example, as someone working in NYC making much less than $150K.

[samspenc]

+1 . I always see these comments about "developers in NYC make well over 200k at established companies" and I'm yet to see instances of this.

AFAIK, only Google and Facebook have fairly sizeable engineering offices here and pay that much.

Even the large financial institutions pay most of their engineers less than 200k, maybe around 150k.

I've heard of "quants" (engineers / mathematicians) who sit at the trading desks making bank, but that was in the days of when trading actually made a ton of money, and I have to yet meet someone in person to ask them how much they made.

[ryandrake]

Everyone on HN makes $300K, drives a Porsche and has a supermodel boyfriend/girlfriend. Look at every salary thread here, you’ll see it over and over. Self reported salary data is always going to skew high because of ego.

[solarkraft]

Tip: look 2 comments up

[monkeynotes]

I assumed by `combined income` the commenter meant household combined - AKA two earners, I'm unclear on what the intention meaning is now.

[mcargian]

The original linked article calculated combined income by combining salary + bonus + profit sharing.

[monkeynotes]

TIL I need to get a new job.

[bonniemuffin]

Actually it probably means salary + RSUs, which are generally substantial for FANG-type jobs. If you're only looking at salary, you're missing half the picture.

[scarface74]

These numbers are low for Atlanta - unless I too am in a bubble - all of my friends with 10+ years of experience are making 120K to 145K. These are standard corporate jobs. Atlanta is not high cost of living place. You can easily get a new build - 5 bedroom 3 bath 2800 square foot house in the northern burbs - for around $350K. Even in one of the wealthiest cities in America (Johns Creek) houses are going for between 400K - 600K.

[monkeynotes]

Of course they are lower out side of 'FANG'. The big companies will always want to attract the best of the best and to do that will need to post the bigger salaries, because as pointed out in the infographic; salary is darn important to people choosing where to work.

[gorbachev]

No. The numbers are way too low at least for the big tech hubs (nyc, sf).

The numbers the article is quoting for nyc are jr. dev / intern numbers for anything but the top 20% scale, me thinks.

It's been about two decades since I've seen numbers like that offered for open positions in NYC.

[godelmachine]

May I ask what's FANG?

[spyspy]

Facebook Amazon Netflix Google

[TYPE_FASTER]

> Are the salaries outside of FANG really that much lower?

Yes.