[wildjim]

For a while, maybe 5+ years ago (7? I can't remember clearly) it seemed like Perl was stagnating a little. This was about the time Ruby really seemed to take off, and some neat Python projects appeared (e.g. Gentoo Linux).

Now, even though the core language hasn't changed, there seem to be all sorts of clever Perl modules appearing which take advantage of a lot of Perl's highly flexible nature.

I really like Ruby myself, and really hate Python (even though I have to use it at work) but when the other languages fail me, I can almost always turn to Perl in a pinch and get it to do what I want. I also have to admit that the potential power of Perl6's syntax is a little astonishing; I think I would pick Perl6 over Ruby, for example.

[jacquesm]

> really hate Python

Why?

[mahmud]

I can't speak for him, but it looks a lot like my pre-code scribbles. As someone who takes pride in being a fleshware translator of pseudo-code to real-code, I feel indignant at the sight of executable, Englishy specification.

High praise or a heavy put-down?

Also, I seem to hold the Guy Steele languages in highest regard, and consider the rest passable toys. C, Common Lisp, Scheme, Java, Fortran .. somehow they feel real. You crack open the spec and you're quickly welcomed into an intelligent dialog with the best minds in systems programming. I read several chapters of the Java spec last night and learned more about the language in one night than weeks of "googling" Ruby. The GSL-school of specification is precise, uses a well established vocabulary, and explains the syntactic and semantic rules of the language, along with their required execution environment. Not a word is said about add-on packages, installation crap, compiler internals or how to fork the language on github.

Compare these two and see what I mean:

http://docs.python.org/reference/index.html

http://java.sun.com/docs/books/jls/third_edition/html/j3TOC....

See how much more detailed the Java specification is; although the language has more features, the spec manages to be much more succinct and precise. The Python spec is littered with references to "CPython" and the internals of an specific compiler.

[mikeklaas]

You are the first person I've encountered that thinks ill of the fact that Python reads like pseudo code.

In my mind, it does it in a way that remains succinct and strict, thus avoiding the abomination of "enlishy" code (AppleScript, SQL to some extent, etc.)

[mahmud]

It was an earned compliment, given in reluctance.

[josephholsten]

> it looks a lot like my pre-code scribbles

Absolutely, and I mostly write ruby. I actually love that about python. But it feels optimized for writing code with a pen, not with a keyboard. Come to think of it, I don't prefer either for the reading of other's code. But ruby and perl seem to flow from my keys much more naturally than python.

Maybe if I switch from vi to emacs I'll change my tune? ;)

[steveklabnik]

I don't _hate_ Python, I just dislike it. I religiously indent my code in every language, but the significant whitespace bothers me. You can't have multiline lambdas. "There should be only one way to do it" bothers me. I always miss blocks. Reddit's blatant, blind hatred of Ruby and intense love of Python really turns me off. Guido's lack of understanding of TCO is embarassing. (though I've seen worse...)

All of these things are not dealbreakers, and I'd rather code in Python than several other languages. But I never actively want to develop in it.