[b0rsuk]

Here in Poland it's very risky to connect with your colleagues. I think it's the case for all countries with low social trust rating. In theory, you're working together for common gain, because if your company is better off you should earn more and work should be easier and quality better, right? Yet in Poland people are very eager to get advantage of one another. It's got to the point where I don't trust coworkers by default. I'm helpful, but careful.

[John_KZ]

Hostile workplace culture is a thing everywhere. You don't have to and you shouldn't have to be friends with all your colleagues. Loneliness is not a problem that can or should be solved at work. You should make sure nobody is marginallized but trying to make people feel at home while they're not is deceptive, it really complicates simple things, and it's not good for anyone.

The article says we should deceive employees into thinking we're all a family so we can make more money out of them. As far as I know there's a lot of effort in that direction by the american industry (ie forcing wallmart employees to do a humiliating group dance/song at the start of their shifts).

However there's one thing the author forgets: If you actually create strong relationships in your office, you run into the danger of them unionizing! Uh-oh! Time to do a U-turn. What if your workers demand higher wages collectively? What if they protest the firing of one of their friends? So I guess now their goal becomes "how to make people think they're in good company while making sure they're not". Fortunately it's rather hard to trick people into this.

[donttrack]

Is this a general thing in Poland? Any other Polish people feel like this?

A lot of my work is being outsourced to Poland and I am thinking I could use their distrust of each other to my advantage in some way.

[p0ints]

My view is the opposite - Poles are more honest (which usually translates to - more whiney) at their jobs than Western people, where centuries of capitalism have taught people that it's best to keep your thoughts to yourself and pretend to be happy/content. Poles have yet to internalize this lesson.

[b0rsuk]

It depends what you mean. To Poles Americans look quite fake with their smiling mask, and adjectives ranking from "good" to "awesome". The world "beautiful" sticks out like a sore thumb when you read web frontend/design blogs. Words like that are reserved for truly astonishing works. There is no expectation that you feel great all the time. Ask and you usually get an honest answer(bragging on a job interview notwithstanding). It's not like I heard about India where I heard IT workers often don't ask questions or are afraid to admit they don't understand something. There is also no strong expectation to participate in polite small talk like in UK. Gosh, it's hard to say, I'll have to travel a bit to see Poland from outside.

But leave your bike, or even an umbrella unattended for a few moments and it's likely to get stolen. If you drop money in a public place, it's very unlikely to be returned anywhere - it's seen as a windfall. Fenced houses and (multi-flat) blocks are getting VERY popular. In fact, people bring screens to beaches to separate themselves from each other (usually by family), sometimes even "reserving" spots on public beaches(they have no right). Some foreigners half-jokingly use the term "polish disease" to describe materialistic attitude of many Polish girls. Government clerks are famously unhelpful and make you do their job. Recruitment agencies are almost entirely focused on employer needs. Cheating in school is widespread and very rarely reported by classmates. You're seen as a snitch. It's similar with reporting bad drivers. Tax avoidance and frauds are more tolerated, even among politicians("Everyone does that / all political parties do it anyway"). There are many laws and rules which are not used in practice - the most spectacular example is the Smoleńsk plane crash in 2010 where most of the political elite, including the president, died.

Also keep in mind Poles working abroad are usually the most ambitious and honest ones, because they understand Westerners appreciate that. It's refreshing being able to just focus on doing a good job, and with expensive equipment.

I guess the bottom line is Poles often don't trust you, but are honest about it.

This is of course largely a product of Soviet influence (technically Poland was a part of Warsaw Pact, but NOT a part of Soviet Union) and resulting material powerty. Romania, Russia are similar but even more grim.

What is jaw-dropping to a Pole?

"I was a construction worker in Denmark. At the end of the shift, I suggested that we store our tools indoors. - Why? We'll be working in the same place." (expecting theft)

That until recent years Swedes didn't lock their homes.

In a swedish fairy tale "Moonintrolls", one of characters suggest that they repair an old boat they found, so that they can use it better or give back a nice boat if the owner shows up. The idea that you might be happy about giving back an object you put your work into like that.

That in other countries ministers delegate work and important decisions up to their subordinates, and that most of civil service and (local) administration stays when the ruling party changes. Polish politicians like to micromanage, and behavior like that is seen as sign of weakness.

Interesting read on social trust in various countries: http://www.behaviouralinsights.co.uk/uncategorized/social-tr...

[p0ints]

I agree with most of this (I'm a Pole, currently living in Poland). I'd say that we're closer to the world norm and the Westerners are the outliers - universal wealth on an unprecedented scale has created some paradise-like conditions in those countries. Meanwhile, in the rest of the world (most of Africa, Asia, South America, Eastern Europe) people are scamming and robbing each other left and right, which creates a justified amount of mistrust. My prediction is that further automation and globalisation will be the great leveler, and in 50 years people in the West will be considerably worse off (it's already happening, hence Trump, Brexit etc.) while the rest will improve.

[b0rsuk]

You are probably right. We, members of the western civilization (Europe + America) increasingly live in a bubble. This is unfortunate, because Europe used to be open to the world and used to profit from that. I'm not in favor of exploitation, just pointing out there's barely any news from Africa, Asia, etc. Polish news are almost all about west and east. Barely any time is devoted to northern and southern neighbors.

[Noumenon72]

Which rule was not used in the Smolensk crash?

What would happen to you in the workplace if you behaved like a Westerner and looked for opportunities to contribute to others' priorities, praised others' work, and shared your productivity enhancers?

You're totally correct that it's refreshing to just be able to focus on doing a good job. I work so much voluntary overtime just because I know that it's a rare time when you are someplace your contributions are needed and welcome. A lot of times you have a lot to offer and no organization that can get it to people who need it.

[p0ints]

> What would happen to you in the workplace if you behaved like a Westerner and looked for opportunities to contribute to others' priorities, praised others' work, and shared your productivity enhancers?

I curently work in a large Western Europe organization (30k employees), which does a lot of its software development in Poland. I'd say the work is in many ways organized in a terrible way (courtesy of the higher-up geniuses in the HQ). My observation is that the rank-and-file employees in the Western Europe branches tend to more often eat shit and smile about it than people in Poland. That may be because I don't know them as well as my Polish collegues though.

[b0rsuk]

ad. 1: There's an 8 chapter document "Intrukcja HEAD" (HEAD instruction) about transporting the most important officials of the country. It was established 1 year before the crash, and was partially ignored.* - the flight was meant to be organized by the chancellery of prime minister, but wasn't. The PM vs the president and the ruling party were political enemies. Instead, the flight was organized by people of the now dead president. - although the request with HEAD status was sent to the chancellery of PM, it was also sent (violating the instruction) to BOR (government bodyguards) and 36th Special Regimen of Air Transport (36. Specjalny Pułk Lotnictwa Transportowego). - the content of the request sent to the chancellery of PM was also violating the instruction (no mention of number of people, unspecified type(s) of the airplane(s), unspecified planned time of departure and arrival, unspecified dispatcher, unspecified cargo).

There's also some stuff that I don't know how to neatly translate, but suffice to say it wasn't an isolated case. When Donald Tusk, the PM at the time, earlier flew to Smoleńsk, the HEAD instruction was also partially ignored.

The reason the chancellery of PM abstained from its duties was an earlier (2008) conflict between Donald Tusk (PM) and Lech Kaczyński (the dead president), when the PM denied the request of the president, when the latter wished to fly to Brussels.

Source, in Polish: https://oko.press/ignorowanie-instrukcji-head-kancelarie-org...

There were also other problems, like insufficient training (ignoring the messages PULL UP, TERRAIN AHEAD), and recorded presence of superiors in the cockpit, pressuring the pilots to land (likely gen. Błasik's voice, but no 100% certainty).

And last, but not least, don't put all your eggs in one basket. The number and status of officials who ended up on that single plane is mind-boggling. And why so much pomp?

ad. 2: Most likely people would enjoy your productivity tips and not credit you for them. If you tried to contribute to others' priorities? There's an informal term "spychologia", from pushing down worn onto someone else. Ask someone to help you by doing unglamorous work, while you do something more spectacular. Works better if you have tits and your coworker doesn't.

I was recently applying for a job in a German company. The interviewer mentioned they have an "all hands on the deck" approach to when someone is not going to make it with a deadline: instead of making one person triple his efforts, several people do 1 hour of (voluntary) overtime. Sounds good. It was the first time I've heard about something like that, and it took me 3 years to find a job (I signed the contract today, with another company). Other than the subject of their work, it sounded like a very interesting and laid back workplace.

* Note ignoring some rules is a common theme in Polish culture. Poland is a bit anarchistic, and many laws exist mostly on paper. Like policemen not fining drivers who park cars taking over 1/3 of sidewalk. Problems are sometimes "solved" with new laws which are impractical. I'm not sure how it came to be, but I have two ideas: - the time when Poland was partitioned didn't help. All laws were occupants' laws. - earlier, in XVI century, when feudalism was at its height, Poland had two distinct classes: peasants, at least 80% of population, and noblemen. Past kings had granted noblemen numerous privileges in exchange for support of various political initiatives. In time, it resulted in a weak state, and decision paralysis. There was a famous law, "Liberum Veto", which allowed a single member of parliament (nobleman) to cancel the session. I mean it was legal, although sometimes it made others mad and the person had to run for his life. This anarchism of sorts sometimes makes life easier (mutually beneficial informal agreements), but at other times complicates it. It can also enable coteries and cartels.