[121789]

Anecdotally I haven't found this HN-wide negative sentiment of Uber (and narrative of its decline) to be shared anywhere else in the US.

My extended family in the southeast and northeast US is familiar with Uber (without using it), but they haven't heard of Lyft. When I lived in Chicago, most of my peers had Lyft, but Uber was the always the first choice.

Does anyone else see the same trend? The bay area certainly seems to be Lyft-dominant, but I haven't seen that anywhere else.

[ferongr]

True. Here in Europe in general, Lyft is uknown, but, at least here in Greece, everyone sings the praises of Uber, in comparison to the terrible service normal taxis provide.

HN is not only a regional but also an ideological bubble, and it seems to hate companies that are doing well for themselves (except Apple and Musk-affiliated gigs).

[vadimberman]

> at least here in Greece, everyone sings the praises of Uber, in comparison to the terrible service normal taxis provide

There. It's not only in Greece, it's pretty much all over the world except a few places.

I know, the taxi drivers work hard, but the standards before Uber were really abysmal. Why? Because monopoly.

For the young ones and those with poor memory, the overcharging, taking 5 times the normal length "shortcuts", geographically challenged, downright scammy taxi drivers were a norm. In the States, they also expect a tip of 20% for deigning to do their job; one thing I never understood in Boston is how it is physically possible to accumulate so many fumes in a modern car. In places where the taxis are in demand, they wouldn't bother picking you up.

Today the horrible ones still exist, of course, but their number is dwindling.

[nothrabannosir]

> and [HN] seems to hate companies that are doing well for themselves

Well, that—and, maybe, a pinch of Company-wide culture of sexual harassment.

[misun78]

Also source required where the number of sexual harassment cases at Uber > the number at a comparatively sized company. Otherwise you are just going off of who gets the most publicity in the media.

[ethbro]

I believe it's less the number of claims (though from all the stories, I'd give them 50-50 on being an outlier) and more the seniority of the claims.

If a large org has junior employees harassing other employees, that's bad.

If the CEO and executive level is actively participating in and covering for same, that's organizational policy.

[shaki-dora]

You’re asking for something impossible, I.e. proof of something that cannot be proven. After all, any sort of statistic I could find would be tainted by your “media bias” catch-all.

[hcnews]

> Well, that—and, maybe, a pinch of Company-wide culture of sexual harassment.

Source required (specifically about company-wide culture, x != entire company fwiw where x is the number you are claiming).

[rtpg]

Why do you think HN hates companies that are doing well for themselves?

Doing this is way more exhausting than cheering them on (see SpaceX, people have fun in those posts). "Oh this company is doing well and I'm jealous"? Seriously don't know how that's enough.

There's a slightly less nefarious interpretation which is that people have different values, and disagreement happens.

So many people are extremely happy to see other people's success here, for example Lyft here. But what you might think is unimportant virtue signalling is something other people actually care about, sometimes deeply

[johnfn]

Are you sure about your first assertion? It is well known that HN is gratuitously negative about everything. SpaceX is the exception, rather than the rule - and you'd be hard pressed to find another company with quite such a positive reputation on HN.

[rtpg]

Personally, I think the causality here is flipped.

People by default will be excited about stuff that's "good news". But the community is pretty big, so there will usually be a set of people that see an issue, and comment on it.

So in the end many things coming through will be negative or cynical. The fact that people tend not to just comment "neat" but will write the paragraphs of research saying how X is wrong doesn't help in the impressions. But for things like research papers, most people tend to just comment on the contents.

I think the reason so few companies on HN have this reputation is because many of these companies are problematic. Google is the symbol of ad networks. Facebook does a bunch of privacy-busting stuff. Amazon exploits many workers on the lower end and it's not certain that their monopoly will be benificial in the future.

If anything I think it's an indictment on the kind of company that succeeds in SV (and, well, capitalism). I think we all remember old "do no evil" Google financing a bunch of awesome stuff. And when they turned out to be like every other company.... well that sucks.

Inversely loads of smaller businesses tend to get a lot of good press on this website, because people can see the passion and the "not about quarterly revenue" attitude.

[ethbro]

I attribute SpaceX and Tesla love to the "ask a kindergartner what they want to be" phenomenon.

Everyone, regardless of field, can relate to rockets and cars.

Far fewer people would relate to, say, optimizing insurance benefit payments.

[jschwartzi]

It's deeper than that. People here like Tesla because it's forcing other car makers to build decent electric cars. That's something that needs to happen if we're going to move away from fossil fuel dependence.

SpaceX is cool because there's a really good chance they'll be more successful at missions to the moon and Mars than NASA has been recently. They're both forward-thinking companies.

[ethbro]

My point being there are thousands of companies doing interesting and "good" things. But Tesla and SpaceX definitely seem to get more of a positive reaction than the others.

Not saying they aren't doing good things. But they get more credit than the good things they're doing would merit. And probably more than even effective PR can explain.

[hn_throwaway_99]

Agreed. Whether you think it's worth changing your habits for, with the numerous examples of shitty behavior (that their new CEO has even copped to) from Uber it's not hard to see why people wouldn't want to support them.

[Certhas]

You can speak for Europe in general?

In my European bubble people are generally aware that Uber is a morally questionable company (without necessary knowing about the details, just a reputation) and some have heard of Lyft, even though it's not available.

[John_KZ]

This guy doesn't know what he's talking about. Uber is banned in Greece, Italy, Finland and a host of other countries. It's also legally banned in London afaik and heavily regulated in a lot of other places.

Actually in Greece 4 drivers have been criminally charged for violating the law by driving for Uber and falsifying documents (as per company instructions).

In the countries of South Europe (Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal) in which I have personal experience, although there are some Uber drivers operating illegally or in gray zones, penetration is minimal. You can only get rides in capitals and major cities, and they're not much cheaper.

The main reasons are 2: people hate Uber because they know they're exploiting workers, and taxi drivers have strong unions. Uber IMHO is the only entity that managed to become more hated than taxi drivers.

The reason Uber is banned everywhere can be summed up by the European Court of Justice: Uber needs to stop pretending to be just an app. It's a transport company, and it's using the app as an excuse to operate illegally, bypassing regulations, responsibility and avoiding tax.

[luka-birsa]

I can second this. Uber did have a positive effect on local taxis, forcing them to upgrade. We now have taxi companies that are reinventing themselves - apps are good, you can pay with CC in the app and the drivers need to adhere to some standard of professional ethics.

Imagine that - they are able to do that without the "Uber" model of ignoring regulation and doing the fuck they want regardless.

[zaarn]

Atleast where I live, southern germany, Apps for Taxi have been a thing for a while, to my knowledge predating Uber and the standards for them have been extremely high for decades at this point.

[yardie]

In my experience, previous to Uber, apps for taxis were just a mobile webview of their website. You could request a driver, they would give you an estimate in blocks of 5-10€, and feedback was nonexistent. Uber, you knew who your driver is and what they were driving, estimates are accurate to the cent, feedback is annoyingly encouraged, and payments are done in app and automatically. None of this, “the CC machine is broken, you have cash?” garbage.

[stevekemp]

For what it is worth the situation in Finland is changing, and Uber will be back in some form:

https://metropolitan.fi/entry/uber-returns-to-finland-in-jul...

[forapurpose]

> seems to hate companies that are doing well for themselves

Wow. Can you back that up?

[spaceflunky]

I noticed the same thing about my family in Phoenix who has nothing to do with the tech industry. They think they're very savvy for having the Uber app and knowing how to use it. In fact my uncle was bragging about some uber benefit he gets via his amex platinum card.

They've never heard of Lyft and don't know anything about any Uber controversy other than the fact that 'taxi drivers hate it!"

[jakebellacera]

Everyone I know gets an "uber" regardless of whether they're using Lyft, Uber, or any other ride sharing service which is not a taxi.

[jimmy1]

Great! Now let's get out there and educate, because Uber is truly a disgusting organization at the top. I am sure once they have died, their engineers can find spots at Lyft as something will need to pick up the void, so no need to worry there Uber devs reading this.

[googlryas]

What do you have against Khosrowshahi?

[lhorie]

Actually, pretty much everyone at the top already left Uber about six months ago or so

[beams_of_light]

Some are still board members, I believe.

[cgmg]

> I am sure once they have died

Just because you want them to “die” doesn’t mean they will.

[dsacco]

> They think they're very savvy for having the Uber app and knowing how to use it. In fact my uncle was bragging about some uber benefit he gets via his amex platinum card.

In fairness, it’s a great benefit.

[stochastic_monk]

All of my friends in the states take Lyft. My friends in other countries use Uber.

[Scoundreller]

Lyft's international expansion has only started recently into Canada about 5 months ago.

[cholantesh]

Yeah, and I keep seeing ads for Maven around. But public consciousness is very high for Uber. The average user that I see doesn't know or care about its internal problems.

[unethical_ban]

If ride availability has anything to say about it, there are plenty of Lyft drivers in San Antonio. I say "take a Lyft" or "Lyft there" when I talk rideshare. I don't preach it or say "Uber sucks" but when I am asked, I mention that Uber had a crummy internal HR program, has committed multiple shady business practices, none of which I can remember, but I can remember disliking.

[moreira]

‘People will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel.’ - Maya Angelou

Your last sentence reminded me of that.

[mariojv]

This is anecdotal, but I'm also in San Antonio and have generally had better experiences with rides from Lyft, even without considering the issues you mentioned. Even wait times have been pretty similar for both. I know someone who drove for both Lyft and Uber, and that person only received any sort of in-person training with Lyft.

I do see the appeal with using Uber internationally that others mentioned in this thread, though.

[maccard]

I'm currently in the Triangle area in North Carolina, there seems to be plenty of lyft users here.

[magicaljyy]

This seems to be survivorship bias. Since you like lyft, you are more likely to be friends with people who also like lyft. OR to phrase it better, you and people who like lyft have more in common.

[maccard]

I'm visiting the area, and know little to no people here. I downloaded both uber and lyft, and so far have had far more success getting a lyft than an uber.

[btym]

In Seattle, most people I know choose Lyft for ethical reasons.

[heedlessly2]

the funny thing is most people criticized Uber for destroying the taxicab industry and displacing jobs, yet don't do the same for Lyft.

The other stuff such as Uber's sexual harrassment, i get, but the above boggles my mind

[snowwrestler]

Anecdotally, in DC the typical wait time for my Lyft rides has about doubled over the past year. Since I can't imagine why fewer people would be driving for them, I interpret that as evidence of increased demand for Lyft.

[thaumasiotes]

My impression in the bay area is that it is Uber-dominant too.

[heedlessly2]

Travis Kalanick is still Chris Sacca's boy

[lanius]

In Southern California, Lyft is always the first choice among my coworkers. It's consistently cheaper than Uber, often significantly so.