[mieseratte]

> Hopefully you live in a state where the records of Marijuana offenders will be expunged eventually.

I don't necessarily disagree with nixing arrests for personal amounts / use of Marijuana, even the "I sold my buddy a dime bag worth that one time," but once we get into serious commercial activity is it not valid to keep those particular convictions?

[nate_meurer]

Simply, no. Marijuana prohibition is bad law, and convictions just for selling and possessing weed, unaccompanied by any other criminal activity, are morally and ethically unjustifiable. When the law dies, as it surely will, society will be well served if those convictions are expunged, restoring their victims to full access to commerce and employment.

[mieseratte]

Again, I don't particularly feel strongly about it, but it feels off that someone trafficking large amounts of a drug, even if it's just pot, are let off. It demonstrates a clear willingness to to disregard law for personal gain.

In general, I don't really give a shit about drugs or drug use. Perhaps the feeling is just years of Drug War indoctrination, but it feels wrong and I'm trying to grapple with "Why" by asking.

[nate_meurer]

> "clear willingness to to disregard law for personal gain"

You mean, the way you disregard the law when you speed in order to get somewhere sooner? Yes, I'm equating speeding with the use of marijuana. And I'd argue that speeding is actually way more dangerous.

I apologize if this comes off as harsh, but the sentiment you express has contributed to horrific abuse of the legal system for decades. Too many people feel generally like you do, willing to put up with wildly disproportionate punishments for no other reason than a law was broken, even if they don't really think the activities should be considered criminal.

Think about what you're saying: you don't really care much about the moral standing of the law, but you don't mind that folks prosecuted under it have their lives destroyed (sorry if I've distorted your position).

Remember, there's a lot of devil in the details of drug law. Florida, for example, assumes intent to distribute if you possess more than 20 grams of weed, allowing up to 5 years in prison and ten grand in fines. If the prosecutor finds a school, public housing, or even a fucking park within a thousand feet of your arrest, they can put you in prison for up to 15 years.

It's good that you're not a drug warrior type, and the american public as a whole is definitely coming to its senses regarding marijuana. But what kind of society puts up with destroying peoples lives for the sake of laws that they don't really feel strongly about?

[drewmol]

Thanks Nate, I have to consider my position and how people perceive my intentions when discussing it, so I can't be as harsh as I think the situation necessitates to change opinions. And even with ban the box laws like CA has recently passed, with public record scraping services stored in private databases,the info is not going away even w expungment(not sure that it should). We need to change perception if for no other reason than: IT COST A FUCK TON OF MONEY to support people who don't participate in the economy, lifelong barriers/stigma very much alienate people from reintegration.

[nate_meurer]

I admire your toughness, or magnanimity, or whatever word I'm looking for. I'm not sure I'd end up with as positive an attitude as you appear to have. That thing you said about trying to get to a place where you can prevent others from being unfairly discriminated against... that says so much about you I think. Even if you never get to that position, you've managed to turn a viciously unfair circumstance into something strong and positive for yourself. Much respect

[drewmol]

Wow, I've never been called magnanimous before, lets go with that;-).

>Even if you never get to that position I will. I've recently been sucessfully asserting my way into those decisions where I am now, so I'm close already.

I really appreciate the compliment, the respect is mutual.

It's taken time, effort and reflection to not be bitter about it. Bitteress is not helpful, plus: Everyone loves a comeback!

[drewmol]

>It demonstrates a clear willingness to to disregard law for personal gain.

I agree completely. I think it very much depends on what law is disregarded. Violators of immigration law are clearly guilty of this. My observation regarding marijuana was that it's very much tolerated, and the serverity the penalties are way out of line with public opinion, which is why the sentencing guidelines are rarely followed. In my specific circumstance, I did not get off free, just didn't go to prison. Knowing what I know now, given the option I would have happily traded a year or two in prison for the option of record expungment.

[drewmol]

I'm undecided on what should be done. Genuinely curious if you have an opinion on what constitutes serious criminal activity that is valid to keep?