[ndaiger]

The law requiring wearing a helmet makes no sense to me. I think Bird is great.

The helmet law seems to have something much closer to a Vespa in mind. And while a Bird can move along at a good pace, it's slower than a bicycle at speed. I believe they lowered the max speed after launching.

You aren't required to wear a helmet on a bicycle if you're over 18, and I think bikes are much harder to control in low-speed contexts.

The law should change.

However people should definitely not ride Birds on sidewalks (although a majority of people do).

[code_sloth]

> However people should definitely not ride Birds on sidewalks (although a majority of people do).

This, is why we can't have good things. Because assholes ruin it for everyone.

Most electronic scooters I've encountered are on sidewalks and pavements, travelling at speeds that can injure pedestrains pretty badly.

It does seem (to me at least) that alot of these idiots take pride in their turning skills, weaving left and right, avoiding people at the last moment possible. Most people just have to stop moving and wait for the bikes to pass because their speed these things are travelling at, coupled with the distance they are away from them, leaves pretty much zero margin for their (the rider's) error. Theres literally nothing much you can do, except to hope they don't hit you.

Furthermore, these bike are pretty silent. When they come from behind, it's quite a shock to the pedestrain.

Its a nice innovation, but I'm inclined to towards heavy handed regulation towards these things because of assholes.

[clon]

I agree with you, the way people will inevitably use them makes them unsafe to be used in the vast majority of the US urban scene.

In Europe, for example Amsterdam or Berlin, it would be a different story, however. They fit very well to the existing comprehensive system of bike lanes. They have a similar speed and manoeuvrability and also both the pedestrians and cyclist are already well conditioned for avoiding each other. Try stepping onto a bike lane in Berlin - you will be feeling really stupid in a hurry.

[mc32]

I've seen what happens to adults when they don't wear helmets while biking. It's not a good idea. Be it your fault or someone else's fault, in the end your head is at risk.

[mung]

Interesting position to take on those two things, since wearing a helmet makes an awful lot of sense since flying off a scooter onto a pavement at 20km will cause massive head injuries...

...and a scooter hitting a pedestrian is not as traumatic as a car hitting a scooter. ..given the relative speed differences of people/scooters/cars and humans ability to process objects at speed remaining the same.

[xapata]

A scooter hitting a pedestrian can easily kill the ped. And yes, I suppose I only have an anecdote, but it feels like evidence to me.

[djrogers]

These are stand up razor-like scooters - they wouldn’t ‘easily’ kill a pedestrian. A car hitting one without a helmet on the other hand...

[Noos]

I don't think a stand-up electric razor scooter is particularly safe if it can travel at bike speeds. The wheels are too small and will have issues with road surfaces far worse than bikes. The danger would be careless riders pitching themself onto the concrete at bike speeds, and anyone who has done that knows it isn't fun. Better full electric bikes, at least they have the tire size to provide a stable ride.

[pstuart]

Can they knock a person down? Then we're talking about the possibility of serious injury or death. It doesn't have to be the initial impact, just what happens after that...

[dzhiurgis]

Can't you knock a person by walking? Or by shouting and spooking them? Or by making a funny face?

Are children allowed to ride bikes on sidewalks in your country/state/city? If so, can't they murder someone with that bike?

[xapata]

Probabilities matter.

[askvictor]

A walking adult, if they trip, fall and hit their head will suffer massive head injuries. A ~2m fall for a human head is enough to kill you. Ergo, all pedestrians should wear helmets.

Furthermore, head injuries to car occupants would be reduced if they wore helmets (why else do race car drivers wear them?)

[mung]

People generally know how to fall and not hit their head, and when they do their body softens the impact. Not such much with scooters and bikes, where you can literally go head first.

There are risk factors, then there is absurd. Racing drivers drive a lot faster than road vehicles, they also have minimal creature comfort protection like airbags because the car has to be light. They have roll cages however that you can thump your head on.

I suppose we could all walk around with goggles because y'know, someone might poke their eye put.

[dzhiurgis]

Someone in Sydney posted fake notice boards saying after date X, all joggers should start wearing helmets by law.

I somehow find this thread highly related to it.

[Noos]

When poor people do things that increase risk of injury, we hector them. When rich people do so, it's obviously that the laws are at fault.

[mtmail]

Reduced from 22mph to 15mph.

In my opinion the law should change in that bicycle riders should wear helmets, too. It's not how much you can control your bike/scooter/segway but what happens if something unexpected happens. Blown type, hitting a curb or large stone, or a car.

[b4lancesh33t]

Motorists should probably be required to wear a helmet too, by this standard.

[tdb7893]

If by motorists you mean people in cars they do mandate head protection in the form of air bags and a myriad of other safety features

[Buldak]

Sure, but the question remains whether mandatory helmets would prevent a significant number of car injuries and deaths (I'd say that's quite plausible). Whether cars have other safety features already is neither here nor there.

[mung]

A helmet in a car would limit visibility and movement and is completely impractical, not to mention mildly pointless.

On a bike you are exposed. In a car, you are not. On a bike you travel around 30km average. In a car, up to 100km average.

[tonyedgecombe]

I think you will find the average cycling speed is a lot slower than that, especially around urban areas where most of the risks are.

[BillTheBiker]

Helmets go on top of your head, they shouldn't limit visibility. The practicality, and point, would be protecting you in the event of a collision.

When travelling at 100km with no seatbelt (legal in many areas), in a collision, you become exposed rather suddenly.

[paulddraper]

And wear seatbelts, by the same standard.

[stefan_]

Don't forget about pedestrians. Helmets are like avoiding ECC RAM, soon you are giving them out on every level of abstraction because you don't want to face the fact that the danger comes from cars/memory with bit errors.

Fix the problem, styrofoam will not save you.

[r00fus]

Peds don't share roads like bikes. When I'm cruising on my road bike I'm literally feet away from cars while traveling at a decent clip like 15mph.

Pedestrians are on a sidewalk often with parked cars between them and the threat of tons of steel at velocity.

Scooters or anything going 15mph should not be on a sidewalk.

[stefan_]

That's novel of you to try to solve this problem by "thinking", the true sign of a great programmer. Yet here we are and the statistics show plenty of head injuries for pedestrians, and the folly of your thought naturally.

Is there a word for this? Theorizesplaining?

[theli0nheart]

That's what the metal chasse is for. Not to mention airbags. Cyclists don't have those.

[b4lancesh33t]

No, I mean that many motorist lives would be saved if they all literally wore helmets. They should be required to. Airbags and roll cages help, but they are (obviously) insufficient on their own to prevent the 20k car deaths every year.

[lev99]

It would also help reduce the 200,000+ TBIs (traumatic brain injury) caused by car accidentals in the US every year.

I might be convinced to personally start wearing a helmet if an awareness campaign gained traction. As it is, I will take the additional risk to avoid looking dumb.

I personally believe that (personal adult) helmet laws are a violation of individual liberties but we should create laws that force bike/scooter sharing companies to make sanitary helmets available. It is better to regulate business behavior than personal behavior.

[tdb7893]

Helmets are also insufficient on bikes but they significantly reduce injuries. With cars I'm not quite sure what problem you would be trying to solve because they probably wouldn't actually appreciably reduce injuries (I don't many of those car deaths are just really simple trauma to the top of the head that a helmet would actually protect against)

[jaggederest]

Oh come now, top of the head? Full face helmets are the better option, and if we're really looking to be safe, we should require them, and anti-whiplash headrest connections, as well.

Similarly six-point restraints, I'm always confused why there's just a lap-and-shoulder belt in most cars.

[HumanDrivenDev]

The nanny states of Australia and New Zealand are the only two places on earth where that's the case, IMO. Australia even censored a tourism advertisement because it showed someone riding a bicycle without a helmet.

You'd fit right in.

[dang]

> You'd fit right in.

That crosses into personal attack. We ban accounts that do this, and I'm sorry to see that your account has been breaking the site guidelines quite a bit. Would you please (re-)read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and take the spirit of this site to heart when commenting here? That means this: if you have a substantive point to make, make it thoughtfully; if you don't, please don't comment until you do. And be scrupulously respectful toward your fellow users.

[lev99]

> The nanny states of Australia and New Zealand are the only two places on earth where that's the case, IMO.

Laws are facts not opinions. There are 49 all age helmet laws in the US, most at the city/county level.

https://www.helmets.org/allageshelmetlaws.htm

[HumanDrivenDev]

I accidentally wrote IMO instead of AFAIK. But thanks for letting me know laws aren't opinions, TIL!!!!

[mung]

That 'nanny state' also pays for your care when you smack your head into the pavement.

[Trundle]

Also for treatment for all of the illnesses caused by our population being fat and unfit.

[zhoujianfu]

There’s even an argument bike helmets make bike riding less safe (or at least don’t help at all): https://bicyclesafe.com/helmets.html

[analog31]

Ah, the University of Bath study again. That study was barely scientific. The researcher was his own test subject, and nobody has ever replicated the result.

Yet it is now a "fact" that helmets make car drivers pass closer to you, because of this study.

[megaremote]

> The researcher was his own test subject, and nobody has ever replicated the result.

Is there any studies that have looked at that?

[clon]

Reminds me of this: https://www.ecohelmet.com/

Essentially an origami helmet. Does anyone have some data points as to the efficacy of such a thing?

[erkkie]

You are totally right, helmets should be mandatory for bikes too :)