[thraway180306]

I find your confident view loaded.

How can you say what heritability means ontologically, when the only way of ascertaining it is through mathematical statistics that doesn't care about your distinctions between genetic or cultural origins of the effects. Unless very carefully controlled, which is apparently too much to ask form the crude tools used in these studies.

Specifically about height you are mistaken this is clear-cut. First there is influence if populace is not under closure. Immigrants and emigrants affect height. A study that controlled for this was taken on pretty stable populace of Norway. Since height is also perceived as attractive and matters in sexual selection it was no surprise that Norse rose 10 cm over a century, or 2.5 cm in a generation. For such an effect to work exclusively through selection though the average height of parents must have been several centimetre higher than the average height of populace! The magnitude of the effect is just too large to work solely through selection at that pace. Thusly it is to be concluded that height is not purely genetic but also an environmental adaptation, both captured in heritability.

[toasterlovin]

Heritability is a term from genetics with a very specific meaning:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability

A trait, such as height, can be heritable without being 100% heritable. On the other hand, you have traits, like the language you speak, which are not heritable at all.

[thraway180306]

Sorry, but language acquisition has been found heritable.

I am aware of the definition. I fear it is you who doesn't have the epistemological clarity. It is not words that define but procedures with which you arrive at your results. And they do not discern culture, environment, flesh unless you take an extra care.

How do you propose to measure heritability of the first spoken language? What would be the variable here? It is perhaps hard to define variance in the language you speak, no? Are you aware of any such study, proving as you say that language one happens to speak is not heritable at all (as opposed to obviously)?

To see about an obviously cultural trait you'd like the first spoken language to be, it would be perfectly possible to measure accent variance, and perform a GWAS or twin study on that to see whether this is heritable or not. I am not aware of such study.

[toasterlovin]

The ability to produce and understand language, in general, is heritable. Speaking a specific language is not. Have you spent any time around the children of immigrants? They speak the language of their peers fluently, but often have a limited ability to speak and understand the language of their parents.

[thraway180306]

This is something different. As I already said acquisition of first, second &c. language, pace of this has been found heritable.

To have heritability at all you have to have variance. People having hands and legs: heritability not defined. Has there been a language study around such immigrant children you mention to see if their language is heritable? Or do you rule out heritability here because <words>, which has nothing to do with how heritability is actually measured whenever it can be (there being underlying variance). Or have you made up that unconducted example like mine with accent? I would gladly accept my wrong if presented with actual conducted study you got that fallacious argument (language: 100% not heritable) from. Or was that just your personal understanding?

[toasterlovin]

You don't need to design an experiment, because it is trivial to show that the specific language you speak is not heritable by looking at natural experiments.

For instance, the United States has experienced waves of immigration from various European countries in the last several hundred years. Specifically, there have been large waves of immigration from Germany, Poland, Italy, and Sweden. Yet there is no meaningful population of German, Polish, Italian, or Swedish speakers, fluent or otherwise, in the United State. Also, most Caribbean islands feature extremely high degrees of African ancestry, but the language of these nations is whatever the language of the colonizer was (so Haitians speak French, Dominicans speak Spanish, Jamaicans speak English, etc.). Native Americans speak English and, as a result, their native languages are in danger of becoming extinct. American blacks do not speak African languages, despite being descended from Africans.

This is in stark contrast to skin color, which is highly heritable. So people descended from European immigrants have the same light skin as their ancestors. And people descended from Africans have the same dark skin as their ancestors.

[thraway180306]

there is no meaningful population of German, Polish, Italian, or Swedish speakers, fluent or otherwise, in the United State.

I can't believe you wrote that. Have you been to Chicago? I encourage you to get out your bubble, while admitting failure to reason with you. Parting rhetorical question: what about Hispanics, Asians? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_the_United_States

This is of course totally apart from the asked question and the notion of heritability, which is dear sir a compound statistical and not a causal notion where you can handwave something away because obviously.