[spion]

Its so funny, watching Java fans talking about silly things like `var` whilst their language gets more obsolete every day. I'm so sorry, but basic type inference won. Can you please go away so we can get a good ecosystem and a good language (with first class support VM wise) to go with it in a single package?

On a side note, its getting very tiring to rewrite the whole ecosystem every time a language is being annoying. Can the CS types please work on this real world problem a little instead of going knee deep into homotopy type theory? Please solve this somehow: allow engineers to leave a language without leaving its library ecosystem - lets make libraries super-portable, easily.

[Thiez]

I'm not sure I understand your second paragraph, many (most?) JVM languages (Kotlin, Scala, Clojure) have Java interop, you can leave Java "the language" while keeping Java "the library ecosystem".

[spion]

re: Clojure, the stack traces I think explain the issue (they're pretty terrible, you can see the Java guts).

With Scala its probably better, but still the impedance mismatch shows here and there (the Java ecosystem doesn't use case classes)

Not sure what the situation is with Kotlin, but I'm guessing its the best because its closest to Java semantically and made by JetBrains who pay extra attention to usability for developers.

I should've probably avoided the bitter sarcasm, but I've seen this `var` argument over and over for over 10 years now and I can't believe its still around, even when its very clear its bringing the language down (you can't name anonymous object types). Local type inference does not hurt readability since in > 90% of the cases the expression on the right side contains more than enough information for a human reader to infer the type too. This is often so pronounced that Java code looks downright silly: `Item item = x.getItem();`, `Array<X> xes = new Array<X>();` and so on.

Yet developers have opposed this change over and over and now that its finally getting in it feels like such a waste that it didn't happen sooner. Perhaps the ecosystem would've kept more people if it did...

Which reminded me of another waste: every time a new VM and/or language is created (like say Golang), we pour in millions of developer hours all over again re-inventing its library ecosystem. Because clearly in our new VM / language code from other ecosystems is useless junk somehow. And everyone accepts this as normal. Doesn't that ring any alarm bells in the back of our heads by this point?

[spion]

Should've clarified that "first class support" wasn't really about the VM but mostly about the library ecosystem.