[oldcynic]

Of course after someone has achieved success they put it down entirely to innate worth, effort, skill and so forth. Likewise plenty who have deserved success have been wiped out by unlucky timing of the dot com bust, credit crunch, fraud.

Yes persistence pays, but however unpopular it might be around here, we are nearly all one or two rolls from disaster - be that business failure, major illness, or whatever, that can easily escalate into life ruining proportions.

I am far less inclined to simply spout "work hard and make your own luck" now than I would certainly have done in my 20s. Thirty more years of experiencing life, and seeing what sheer luck, good and bad, has done to friends, family and their businesses has changed my perspective on luck quite dramatically.

You need hard work and luck.

[tonyedgecombe]

I'm not that convinced about the hard work part, it strikes me it's a hangover from the protestant work ethic. If you can't achieve something in 40 hours a week why would adding another 20 make much difference. If anything it might make it more difficult.

I think I'd phrase it as you need work and luck.

[petra]

Also the ingredients of hard work, I.e. preservance, energy, focus, etc are themselves dependent on luck - having the right genes, growth environment , health , etc - so that's another type of luck.

[skookumchuck]

Claiming that working hard is "luck" is an absurd excuse for not bothering to try.

The vast majority of people in the US are healthy and the environment in the US is the most conducive in the world to success. Stop making excuses.

[RoddaWallPro]

I think if you took the time to research obesity, heart disease, diabetes, cancer, etc, in America vs. other countries, you would not be spouting this nonsense. Americans have the ability to get in a bad car wreck and live because we have incredible emergency care. That's it. That is not health.

[skookumchuck]

> nonsense

I'm happy to tell you the good news that the overwhelming majority young adults in American are not suffering from debilitating health problems nor have their lives been saved by incredible emergency care.

[NotSammyHagar]

> the environment in the US is the most conducive in the world to success. Stop making excuses

I think it depends on what is success. It's at least arguable about the us being the most conductive to success. We have less regulation in a lot of ways than other western countries, but if you have troubles, like say a car wreck that hurts you, it sucks to be in the us compared to say germany. In the us, there are a lot of built in advantages for the existing successful companies, it's harder to challenge. For example there are few large internet providers. But at the same time, there are many more new startup companies here, and there seems to be much more risk tolerance.

[Antimachides]

You can work softly, not getting as much done in the same amount of time of working hard.

[internetman55]

And you can overexert yourself in the same amount of time, leading to deterioration in the rest of your life and eventually handicapping even your ability to work hard. I feel like this is a quite complex issue and I'm not really sure why so many people try to give one line advices on it.

[mistermann]

What's special about the second 20 hours that they make no difference? Does the 39th hour make a difference? The 41st?

[mistermann]

-1 votes, color me surprised.

[skookumchuck]

Luck won't happen to you if you don't get in the game. Getting in the game means getting out there swinging.

Getting in the game is a choice you make.

[oldcynic]

I used to say, and believe, such things.

After over 30 years of work, and business, I have become vastly more tolerant and understanding of those who were diligently "out there swinging" until it broke them, and sometimes their families too. There comes a point where anyone will break.

What of those who were swinging improperly due to their year of birth and graduated during a recession? The effect of taking something when jobs are not available can lock them into poorer quality jobs for decades. Earnings for some never catch up over a whole career, at least according to some studies. Potential employers only take interest in your previous role, and current salary, so this isn't unduly surprising.

Of course you have to be "in the game", but the effects of your swings, regardless of how many, are often outwith your control.

[RobertoG]

"Getting in the game is a choice you make."

If you are lucky enough to make that choice ;-)

[skookumchuck]

Did you reply to me because luck took hold of your fingers, or did you choose to?

[drb91]

He's replying on this forum because he's lucky enough to have a life with enough leisure time to shitpost on a web forum.

[skookumchuck]

Did luck force you to reply, as well?

[raleec]

I think that we can agree that we're very lucky to have you here to correct our malformed opinions! :)

[nezzle]

Actually this attribution - internalizing success and externalizing failure - is important for mental health.

Discussed in 'How to Be Miserable: 40 Strategies You Already Use'