[AstralStorm]

The problem is that because it is such a rare event, efficacy of any intervention is extremely hard to evaluate. So essentially whatever you do is guesswork.

To put it simply: how's do you know if whatever you did has an effect instead of the numbers being a result of a random downswing?

(You can know if you can know by employing Bayesian statistics - with these low rates you really cannot.)

[SonicSoul]

well what about the idea that other countries adjusted their laws after such incidents and it made a difference in crime statistics?

[rvo]

I hate guns and I want them banned in America. But, crime goes up after gun bans https://crimeresearch.org/2013/12/murder-and-homicide-rates-...

I am okay with that because it spreads the violence but each instance of violence is less deadly. So for the sake of no school schootings, I will accept increase in general violence. Let's repeal the 2A.

[pjc50]

Misleading graph! https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/40697/did-the-u...

"Tthere are notes about anomalous events included in each year's numbers. Since the numbers are so low these can throw the graph off. In particular two large events which happened in previous years were reported for 2003 and 2017 respectively which accounts for their anomalous spikes.

    2003 includes 172 victims of Dr Harold Shipman, one of the most prolific serial killers in history. While these killings happened over 25 years, they're recorded for 2003.
    2017 includes 96 victims of Hillsborough which happened in 1989.

The data notes other large, anomalous events are noted which can explain spikes in individual years.

    2001 includes 58 Chinese nationals who suffocated in a lorry en route into the UK.
    2004 includes 20 cockle pickers who drowned in Morecambe Bay.
    2006 includes 52 victims of the 7 July London bombings.
    2011 includes 12 victims of Derrick Bird."

I would also add that that data is for England and Wales, which excludes both Scotland's notorious history of stabbings and the three thousand deaths in Northern Ireland throughout the Troubles, prior to 1997. Some of which were using Armalite AR-18 rifles, as made famous by the murals.

[jcims]

You'd have to collect the guns for it to be effective. There are over 300 million generally unregistered firearms in private possession today, that might get a little tricky.

[pjc50]

Any sensible implementation would be a phasing-out rather than a single sharp transition. It's not going to be like Sweden changing which side of the road they drove on overnight.

[krapp]

>Any sensible implementation would be a phasing-out rather than a single sharp transition

Many Americans already believe that gun control legislation is part of a program to phase out gun ownership and undermine the Second Amendment - and that's why they're stockpiling guns in expectation of an inevitable civil war. It's never going to not be tricky in the US.

Anything approaching what the rest of the world considers "sensible" gun control in the US would first need a massive cultural shift to take place, or an acceptance of protracted guerilla warfare as a consequence.

[banned1]

Other countries are not defined by the idea that people have a right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

[pjc50]

Europe is of course defined by the ECHR rights to life, liberty, and so on. This does not include "the pursuit of happiness" but it's not really clear how the school shootings help with that.

[banned1]

First, Europe is not a country.

Second, the ECHR mainly concerns itself with the "duty of states" to protect life, not the people's right to life itself.

Here is Article 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_2_of_the_European_Conv...

It is relatively recent that courts have even rules on this, primarily with McCaan v UK

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCann_and_Others_v_United_Kin...

In the US, the right to life and liberty supersedes the right to safety. Based on the founding documents, Americans, because they are HUMANS, are born with the right to protect their lives and to pursue happiness. There is no right to safety (as there is no "RIGHT TO HAPPINESS") as safety would be something that OTHERS would have to provide YOU. Nothing that others must provide you can be a right.

[DanBC]

https://twitter.com/CoyoteToledo/status/966832602383552513

   US: I'm on fire 
   CANADA: jump in the water 
   US: water won't work, i need more fire 
   UK: we used water when we caught fire 
   US: it won't work for us we like fire too much 
   US: I'm burning 
   AUSTRALIA: here is a video of water putting out fire 
   US: *stuffs fire in pockets*

[mieseratte]

> CANADA: jump in the water

Canada has a comparably high-rate of gun ownership and yet a substantially lower murder rate. I've seen plenty of pissing and moaning on firearm forums about their restrictions, more severe than the US', but one could reasonably carry out a massacre up there just as much as one can in the states.

It's not the guns. It's us.

[theluketaylor]

Our most right wing national newspaper did a look at many mass shootings in the US and how that same scenario would play out in Canada. The overall conclusion is that not all the shootings could have been prevented by Canadian firearms laws, but many would have been. Interesting read.

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/would-canadian-gun-laws-...

[mieseratte]

That's a great article, but something has me doubt that a lot of the "probably not" incidents would have been stopped is that they often hinge on the RCMP having a mere suspicion.

> The shooter, army psychiatrist Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, had been investigated by federal authorities for links to terrorism. This would likely be enough for the RCMP to restrict his ability

When a PAL is denied, does one have the right to appeal or is that the final word on the matter? In the US the NICS background check has something similar, the Delay. If, in the course of your FFL background check, the Feds think you're up to something they issue a Delay which can be followed up with a Deny or the go-ahead to sell the firearm. One can appeal a Deny, however there is no way of handling a Delay which is particularly annoying since something as benign as having a similar name to a known criminal can result in one.

[jdanp]

Actually crime rates in Australia and the USA decreased similarly in the period following Australia's gun ban, despite America's inaction.

[dvanduzer]

Overall crime rate in the US (everywhere?) has decreased since the 1970s or so. There is speculation it had to do with lead paint.

There has not been a single "mass shooting" in Australia since the gun ban. In the US, mass shootings decreased after the Federal Assault Weapons Ban of 1994, and then increased after it expired 2004.

[jdanp]

List of Australian mass shootings since the gun ban https://i.redd.it/i0ovzrr4bgj01.jpg