[Cyph0n]

Law and medicine are not relevant examples at all.

In both cases, licensing did not arise because of hiring issues, but rather because both law and medicine directly involve human lives and livelihoods.

Any field where this can be the case on a day-to-day basis ends up having strict licensing and/or training requirements. Examples include civil engineers, pilots, soldiers, sea captains, heavy machinery operators, and so on.

[lr4444lr]

The guys who work at Lockheed Martin programming vehicular data sensors, or who work for medical device manufacturers on MRI machine interfaces - they aren't directly involved in human lives and livelihoods? What about the massive security failures at Equifax? That's not putting people at risk?

[Cyph0n]

Once again, these kinds of industries adapt to the kind of work they do. There are numerous bureaucratic and access-control procedures in place at defense contractors. The FDA has a ton of requirements for anyone working on medical devices.

Equifax was a monumental shitshow. I think SSNs are also a shitshow, but I digress.

[austincheney]

> but rather because both law and medicine directly involve human lives and livelihoods.

How does that not describe software? When was the last day you were completely without software? Software powers all manners of our gasoline vehicles and the various traffic signals we encounter. It powers many hygiene products and kitchen utilities. Soon all of these will be part of the internet of things if they already aren't.

> Any field where this can be the case on a day-to-day basis ends up having strict licensing and/or training requirements.

Except software.

[Cyph0n]

It seems like you're not understanding my point at all.

> Software powers all manners of our gasoline vehicles and the various traffic signals we encounter.

The automotive sector has its own complex procedures and policies in place for working on vehicular control software. You and I would likely not even be able to land an interview for an automotive firmware design position without prior experience and/or certification.

In many cases, there are entire programming standards that dictate how such systems need to be written.

In other words, the software that runs inside your vehicle is nothing like the software powering our favorite websites.

> It powers many hygiene products and kitchen utilities.

The chance of a kitchen appliance endangering a human is much lower than a car going haywire or a doctor making a mistake due to inadequate training.

[austincheney]

> The chance of a kitchen appliance endangering a human is much lower than a car going haywire or a doctor making a mistake due to inadequate training.

The chance of any device on the internet of things leaking your personal habits online is not low. Furthermore, the risk of death or injury from electrical devices is only due to regulation upon such devices before commercial software was ever imagined. I would also say the hiring and performance of truck drivers is far more regulated than the firmware developers who write the code that powers that very truck.

> the software that runs inside your vehicle is nothing like the software powering our favorite websites.

So website software doesn't need to be written by competent people with regard for your privacy or security? Is insecure online software not harmful? Are credit card data breaches not harmful?

[Cyph0n]

> Is insecure online software not harmful? Are credit card data breaches not harmful?

Harmful, yes. Life threatening, no. There is a world of difference between losing a kidney due to incompetence vs. losing money.

[austincheney]

So lawyers shouldn't have to be licensed or certified? They cannot take a kidney from you. Neither can truck drivers, real estate agents, or police officers.