[AnimalMuppet]

I could go downtown tonight, stand on the street corner, and shout "F--- the president!" at the top of my lungs. What would happen? I might get dirty looks. I might get some people shaking my hand. And I might - might - get an angry tweet from the president. I probably would not get either arrested or beaten up. (And this isn't a political statement. I could have done the same under the previous president, with the same results except for the tweet.)

China's touchiness on these matters reveals the Communist Party's insecurity.

[echevil]

I think it's more just because of them afraid of "losing face" like almost all Chinese people do. That's quite deep in Chinese culture.

Even the most powerful emperors in Chinese history (who would have nothing to be afraid of) still executes those who talked ill of them

[jerf]

It's not just China. Being able to publicly yell "Fuck the $RULER" is an anomaly in human history, not the norm.

In the US, the current party in power is always on the verge of instituting totalitarianism. My plan is to start worrying about it when people face systematic government consequences for actually mouthing off about the ruling party. Right now, to a first approximation, nobody has in a long time. Any examples that anxious partisans will rush to contradict me will simply further demonstrate my point with how minor and unsystematic they are in the US.

(If anything gets you in trouble in 2018, it's not mouthing off about the ruling party, it's pissing off the social media mob. That may yet be something we have to culturally reckon with, but it remains the case that it's not the government doing it.)

[AnimalMuppet]

I suspect you're getting downvoted for this line:

> In the US, the current party in power is always on the verge of instituting totalitarianism.

And I'm pretty sure that you didn't mean it like people are taking it. Let's start with, I don't know, FDR. He was on the verge of implementing totalitarianism. Really! Just ask the Republicans of 1933! Clinton was. So was Bush. So was Obama. So is Trump. Or so some vocal minority says.

I'm pretty sure jerf is dismissive of all that noise, and intends to ignore it... within limits.

> My plan is to start worrying about it when people face systematic government consequences for actually mouthing off about the ruling party. Right now, to a first approximation, nobody has in a long time. Any examples that anxious partisans will rush to contradict me will simply further demonstrate my point with how minor and unsystematic they are in the US.

Downvoters, I think you're misreading one line, and reacting based on your misread.

[theandrewbailey]

>> In the US, the current party in power is always on the verge of instituting totalitarianism.

> And I'm pretty sure that you didn't mean it like people are taking it.

That blanket absolutist statement is at best false, and is easily disproven with the current situation. Then the whole argument is undermined by the last paragraph about angering the social media mob.

[jerf]

"easily disproven with the current situation."

If you mean that the current party isn't instituting totalitarianism, I would agree with that. Trump has taken more steps to put down government power than to pick it up. A totalitarian does not lower taxes, which is a form of government power, nor does he cut regulations, which is obviously a form of power. You can argue about the effectiveness, but there's no way to argue that into an increase in power.

If you mean that nobody is accusing Trump of being totalitarian... I have no idea how you could possibly have that impression. Google "Trump" and "authoritarian" together and start reading.

And if you don't fear the social media mob, poke them and see how you like it. Talk is cheap; prove you aren't afraid of them, and that you get away with it, and I'll reconsider.

[theandrewbailey]

I understand that many people accuse Trump of being authoritarian. The American people have a very diverse range of viewpoints. Some group somewhere has always accused the sitting president of going out of bounds, being a fascist, going to take our guns away, etc.

I don't doubt that the social media mob is dangerous, but I perceive that it is mostly against the current US administration.

[jerry40]

In Beijing you could easily say the same since there are no laws against blaming the USA presidents in China I guess.

[duncan_bayne]

From the perspective of a non-American it seems this is becoming less true over time; I see things like "Free Speech zones", and violence from Antifa and the alt-right. Not State actors in some cases, but proxies for them.

[liberte82]

Why hire state actors, when you've got more than enough true believers to go around?

[duncan_bayne]

... and a President who says he'll cover their legal bills.

Civil disagreement on matters of politics and philosophy seems to be waning in the West.