[fredley]

The presence of a headphone is very, very high up the feature priority list for me. It's why for the first time ever the next smartphone I buy will not be a Nexus/Pixel device (I'm still on my 1st gen Pixel). I hope I'm with the market, and market forces prevail, consigning the jack-less models to a failed experiment.

[vidarh]

I just bought a new phone, and had made up my mind which one to buy until I realized it had no headphone jack. I ended up with a slightly different "copy" of the same Xiaomi model (the Chinese mid range phones now include copies of higher end Chinese phones - Google thinks my phone is a Xiaomi Mix 2; the phone I initially planned to get was [something else] Mix 2; I ended up with a Vernee Mix 2 - they all look the same, but have slightly varying specs)

It'll be an expensive lesson in particular for lower end brands that don't have margins like Apples to cushion them.

[neolefty]

What software do the "copy" phones use?

[vidarh]

Most of the ones I've had have been pretty much stock Android. Some weird exceptions.

[lasgsf]

As someone who has used BT headsets for 2 years now could you explain why it such a big deal? Is it the audio quality?

[cm2187]

My own reasons (and why I stopped buying new iphone models):

1. I only use high quality headphones that have a rubber membrane, as much because of the sound quality (insulating me from the outside world) and out of respect for my co-workers and fellow passengers (other headphones are super leaky). I haven't seen the major manufacturers making a blutooth version of their in-ear models.

2. Interoperability: I currently have one headphone I can forget in my pocket and it works on all my devices: desktop computer, home laptop, ipad, iphone. I don't want to have to carry multiple models and dongles.

3. I already have to deal with too many batteries, I don't want more batteries in my life, rather less.

4. The last time I tried blutooth audio (a few years ago) the quality was terrible and there was a significant delay (was a bose noise cancelling headset). Things may have improved but in any case I have never seen wireless technologies that aren't unstable in some ways

5. Blutooth headphones is not solving any problem for me. Why should I switch? Why should I have to deal with more hassle? What's the benefit to me? Feels like a user hostile move to sell more hardware, which annoys me and pushes me instinctively to resist it.

[coryfklein]

Bluetooth headphones make headphones complicated. Where previously it's literally a wire with speakers on the end, now your headphones now need to run software and they have a battery.

Previously a search for the right headphones was the intersection of few concerns:

* Price

* Sound quality

* Comfort

It was hard enough finding the right intersection of the 3 that fit me. Now I have to also balance the decision with:

* Battery life

* Ease of use (for HEADPHONES!)

* Rechargeability

* Connection quality

Headphones are such a simple idea. For some people the complexities of bluetooth headphones are worth the cost, but I don't want my cell phone to force me to accept that trade off.

[hayanno]

The real question is why would you remove it ? To make the phone slimer ? I don't mind having a bigger phone if it's for better battery life and the presence of an headphone jack. How do I connect my phone to my computer ? Should I have two headphone : one for my computer who doesn't have BT and one for my smartphone ? This is total non-sense and I'm still looking for someone who give me a rational answer other than company selling more BT headphone at higher price than headphone jack.

[Bahamut]

Disclaimer: I work for Apple, but for less than a year and not for a consumer product.

I always suspected it was to push headphone tech further to a long term better experience - it has been a ripe target for the trend of eliminating the pains of wires. This trend has already dominated video games controllers, and is quite present with computers as well. Headphones are a logical target long overdue for improvement - the hassle of wires, and even a physical hazard in some edge cases (I have my own tale) should in an ideal situation be something eliminated.

I think the theory that it was done so Apple could sell more bluetooth headphones is not how the company thinks - headphone accessory sales are a drop in the bucket financially. I think the decision to remove the port was made beforehand, and the company then invested in creating more bluetooth headphones as a response to that decision, not to drive it.

Of course, I could be wrong, but the emotional conclusion that I’ve seen in multiple places doesn’t seem to have a compelling explanation as to why the headphone jack was removed. The company prioritizes UX in general and acts in response to the implications of the UX, not chase money and think of the UX second.

[KingMob]

In the past, when Apple removed certain hardware (floppies, CD drives) early, there was a clearly superior successor ready, and they were just ahead of the curve.

But the headphone jack didn't have a clearly superior successor, and from what I hear, still doesn't. The overall UX (and sound quality) of Bluetooth is worse, not better; it's tough to beat the utter simplicity of plugging in a headphone jack.

The only thing gained is no wires (and maybe some easier water-proofing, not sure). This is such a sideways move, it always struck me as a sign that Apple couldn't maintain Jobs's vision without him.

[umanwizard]

Not discounting your experience, just giving another data point: I dramatically prefer the experience of AirPods to any other in-ear headphones I’ve used. I’m not enough of an audiophile to notice the quality difference, and I love the comfort of not having an annoying wire.

[KingMob]

Perhaps it's worth it to you. As the owner of $300 headphones, I come down on the opposite side.

But my point is, it's not a clearly superior change that everyone agrees is the future.

[lasgsf]

Same here not to discount but for me using BT and the loss of wires is worth it more then any other benefit.

[imtringued]

Then maybe they should first start by making it good enough before forcing it onto other people?

Right now bluetooth is not an obvious improvement over wired headphones. You have lower audio quality and significant latency unless you spend a significant amount of money, time and have the right technical knowledge to even be able to choose a proper headphone.

These problems don't even exist for wired headphones. Even if you buy the crappiest wired headphone off alibaba you won't find headphones with 500ms latency like your average bluetooth headphone has.

Do you really think the average users know what an "aptX" is and that there are several versions of those of which only the "aptX low latency" version is worth using?

Then on top of that your bluetooth adapter needs to support that same version of aptX too.

Apple may compensate for the delay by delaying video too but for that's merely a hack. It just shows that bluetooth adds more problems that need to be worked around.

It's not an incremental improvement over wired heaphones, it's merely a tradeoff and for me the tradeoff is not worth it.

[cm2187]

I personally feel that having to deal with batteries to charge all the time is way more of a hassle than cables.

[dragonwriter]

> The real question is why would you remove it ?

To make more money per handset sale by selling wireless headphones.

[rimliu]

Said handset comes with earbuds included.

[dragonwriter]

And if the average, per handset number of first-party replacements purchased is >0, Apple still wins in the way I described, notwithstanding that they bundle earbuds with the handset.

[vidarh]

One more thing to keep charged, and sound quality is wildly varying, and I keep breaking earplugs and have broken BT headsets in the past more than once.

I'm very flexible about audio quality but still, the sound of even mid range BT headsets is really poor - I didn't ever realize until I had used a BT headset for a while, and then broke it (...) and used a cheap pair of earplugs for a while, and it was just so much better.

If I can find BT earplugs that can match the quality, has at least a couple of weeks worth of battery so I don't run out because I've forgotten to charge on a regular basis, and that are substantially more solid, I'd love to not have the hassle of a cable.

The "problem" is that I can pick up a pair of really cheap earplugs and know they'll work reliably and give me good enough quality and just work at any time. I can't the same for BT headsets.

[ck425]

When you invest in top quality headphones (£200+) then buying a new equally good wireless set will set you back £300+. It also means charging two different things, which is a pain.

[sapphire_tomb]

I've got a Pixel XL 1st Gen currently, which cost me about £800. I've also got a pair of Bose Quiet Comfort II over ear bluetooth headphones which cost me £300.

With such investments, I'd expect to not keep losing the connection between the phone and the headphones - but I do. They drop out frequently on my way to work, where my trusty Shure SE315s never do.

Also, Google seem to have done something terrible to their bluetooth stack since the upgrade to Oreo. My phone frequently soft resets whilst hooked up to Bluetooth (either my headphones, or my car - doesn't matter which). Again, not a problem when using the headphone jack.

[verbify]

To be fair, the Pixel 1st Gen has a headphone jack. And the Pixel 2 has bluetooth 5.0 (compared to bluetooth 4.2 for the Pixel 1st Gen), which has significantly better range, reliability, speed, message capacity and data throughput. Google only dropped the jack for devices with bluetooth 5.0.

It's a weak defence, because multiple people had issues with bluetooth on the Pixel 2.

[cryptoz]

I'm not OP but I have a Pixel 2 with no headphone jack and it ruins me daily. I have the adapter yes, but it is lost 100% of the time. And when I want to use it I cannot find it. I find myself literally standing in the cold with my ears freezing off and headphones in with no music. Because I left the house without the 1mm thick nearly invisible adapter.

Not once in two months have I remembered it when I go out. I hate hate hate hate hate how much this phone cost and how vastly more inconvenient is compared to my last phone. I cannot wait for the return of the headphone jack on phones if true!

Edit: how long does it take to switch your Bluetooth headphones from a computer to a phone? If it is more than 1 second, it's a stupid waste of time as well. I'm not putting up with that decline in usability especially if am expected to spend money on it and throw into the landfill my perfectly good headphones. No thanks.

[mscrivo]

Why not just keep it connected to your headphones/earbuds wire all the time? Clunky, I admit, but at least you won't lose it.

[cryptoz]

How do they plug into anything else then? The computers I have don't take that port. My friends phones don't take it. My other devices don't take it. I can't leave it in without buying another pair of headphones for all my other devices.

[ryanwaggoner]

I’m curious why you can’t:

1. Keep the adapter on the headphones cord

2. Get headphones for USB-C (or whatever the Pixel uses)

3. Get Bluetooth headphones

I mean, I understand that you feel like you shouldn’t have to do those things, and you won’t buy one of these again, but it sounds like this is ruining your life. Why not just fix the problem?

[cryptoz]

1. How do I use the headphones in a different product then?

2. I have perfectly good headphones and am not buying more. Period.

3. Why would I spend more money on this for a product I hate? No way am I buying new headphones that I will hate. Bad idea for my sanity.

I will fix the problem by never dealing with a crap phone like this. Next phone will definitely have a headphone jack.

[zimpenfish]

#4 Get a Bluetooth dongle like the TaoTronics TT-BA08

https://www.taotronics.com/taotronics-tt-ba08-bluetooth-4.1-...

[cryptoz]

That sounds awful. I am not buying some something else that I don't want to own just to fix a problem that shouldn't be a problem in the first place.

Also that page is a 404.

[ryanwaggoner]

OK. Just offering some suggestions, but it seems like you’re more invested in complaining than fixing the problem.

[zeveb]

I really hope that someone from a phone manufacturer reads this: it's a textbook example of what you don't want your users to experience.

> I hate hate hate hate hate how much this phone cost and how vastly more inconvenient is compared to my last phone.

This, right here, says it all.

[umanwizard]

The person you’re replying to mentioned Bluetooth.

[cryptoz]

The battery will die. No thanks. They don't plug in to / work with anything else I own easily. No thanks. I already had headphones and am not buying more. Bluetooth pairing takes me on average 15 minutes and usually fails. I would have to be pairing like 5-10 times a day and that sounds like a literal nightmare.

[untog]

Really the calculation is quite simple: is the headphone cord a problem for you? If it isn't there is literally no reason to have to deal with the charging, pairing and quality issues that come along with bluetooth headsets.

[rimliu]

I was not aware how freeing it was not to have cord connected to your phone till I got Beats X.

[untog]

I'm surprised how many people feel this way. I have some bluetooth headphones and really don't care either way - the need to charge the battery and deal with pairing issues is a far bigger problem to me than a headphone cord.

[letmein]

not having to worry about BT charged headphones

[coldtea]

And having to worry about cables.

[ebbv]

Apple’s sales haven’t really been affected. From personal experience I don’t miss it on my iPhone. I’ve used the adapter maybe a dozen times in the year I have had the phone.

[lorenzhs]

I don't know why this is so heavily downvoted, it totally lines up with my experience. I got an iPhone 7 when it was released, and I even bought a second audio adapter thinking I'd need it. I've used them maybe 5-10 times in ~16 months?

I mean, at home I've got Chromecast Audio or Bluetooth speakers. At work or my desk at home I don't listen from my phone. And on the go I really hate cables, I always fear that I'm going to damage the port when walking with the phone in a pocket and positioning the cable is awkward with a warm jacket in winter.

Is my use case really so atypical?

[cm2187]

That being said I see lots of iphone users either never listening to music on their iphone or using the default white headphones that come along the phone, which are of a terrible quality and super-leaky. These people do not care about music quality, so it is unsurprising they wouldn't be bothered by this change.

[ebbv]

Man the DAC in the phones was never that good anyway, so complaining about the sound quality of the earbuds is silly. Sure they don't sound as good as better headphones, but the iPhone comes with an adapter so you can still use whatever headphones you want if you want to do that.

If you really care about sound quality you weren't using the headphone jack on a phone (and its not so great DAC) anyway.

[camgunz]

There's a _very_ big difference in quality between the iPhone earbuds and high quality earbuds/headphones, and a relatively small difference in quality between different DACs. And outboard DACs come with a lot of tradeoffs: extra hardware, battery life (or another battery to charge), cost, and so on. So there are many people who care about sound quality and invested in high quality earbuds/headphones, but rationally didn't spring for an outboard DAC. You get 98% of the quality without it.

[cm2187]

I found the DAC to be good enough, way better than any mp3 player I used before the ipod was released.

Complaining about the sound quality of earbuds is only "silly" if the iphone DAC is so bad that one wouldn't tell the difference between a good and bad earphone, which is clearly not the case.

[ebbv]

Again, I'd say, that it comes with an adapter and you can still use whatever headphones you want. So it's a non-issue IMHO.

[cm2187]

I don't for two reasons. One I don't want to carry dongles. Two it blocks the charging port and I often listen to music at my desk, where I also need it to charge. Doesn't work for me.

[muninn_]

For the vast majority of people the supplied Apple ear phones are just fine and I don't see that as an issue. You don't have to be obsessed with music quality to enjoy reasonably sounding music. I don't not watch movies if I can't see them in theater.

[cat199]

(Consumer side) Market forces have nothing to do with it -

Vendor side 'content partnership' forces yes..

this is DRM and 'closing the analog hole' pure and simple..

[fredley]

Is anyone, anywhere actually 'pirating' music through the 'analogue hole' in a smartphone? Seriously?

[hackme1234]

Sadly the jack-less models are gaining steam.